Author Topic: What would you do?  (Read 14910 times)

Moleskins

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • England
What would you do?
« on: October 07, 2012, 07:58:00 am »
There's a lady up the road with an Alsation which has proved to be a handful.
We've all seen cartoons of dogs snarling and they're depicted with ridges on the top of the nose and bits of spit coming out of the mouth, well this dog is like that.


The other day I came past on the tractor and she has to get it up against something and hold it there with one leg whilst talking to it and distracting it with a toy. I thought it had improved, until yesterday when I came across her whilst out with my dog. The Alsation did its usual thing, at one point it lunged backwards straining on the lead which is attached to a head collar (?) I couldn't help but think if anything slipped we were in trouble.


She finished up with it on its hind legs between her and the wall, her face in the dogs talking to it to calm it, we saw our chance and got past.


What would you do with it, she's had it two years.
Time flies like an arrow but fruit flies like a banana.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 08:53:59 am »
German shepherds are guard dogs and it seems this one is doing its thing very effectively! They are also one-person dogs, in a way many of the other breeds I've kept are not.

Dogs are often less agressive when not on leads and not defending 'their' person.

We had one, an enormous fella, my ex's police dog. As you can imagine therefore he was very well trained! But one day I had to take him to the vets. I am experienced with dogs, knew this one well and could do (most) things with him but was not his handler. I therefore put him between me and the reception counter as I was paying, mashed up to the wall with my legs. A lady leant right over him, in this crowded space, over his head, to pet him. He exploded from his lying position, all teeth and the most alarming baying/growling noise! Fortunately I did still have hold of his lead and he was constrained, so she was able to back off, offended but in one piece.

I tell the story just to illustrate that it wasn't lack of training, nor lack of handling in this case. It was purely his nature and the situation he found himself in. Would he have done it if my ex had been there? His view was 'probably, silly bint'.

So I don't know if additional training would change the fact that your neihbbour's dog wants to eat anyone who comes close to his missus. She seems to be handling him reasonably well but maybe she could do with the ability to put him 'in a down' ie have him lie down when someone comes by.

If he's two, having him 'done' won't make much difference now.

I'm not saying all German Shepherds have this temperament, but feisty entire males certainly can.

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 09:12:59 am »
Our first GSD 'Deuce' became very protective of his 'pack' as he matured (was neutered at 6 months old) and by the time Rebecca came along (when he was 2) his behaviour was getting a bit out of hand  :-\
He was very well trained and we had him at the vet for blood tests (incase it was something physical) and we had a doggy behaviourist out to see him (we were feeding Bakers complete, which she said to stop immediately because the colourants in it were making him hyper)

We looked at a lot of options (none of which included rehoming as a pet) but unfortunately during this time there was an incident at the dinner table one day where he possibly nipped Becca's fingers...... she was fine, but he refused point blank to come out from under the table - he knew he'd done wrong  :( that was it for him I'm afraid  :'( :'( :'(

I think (and it's only my view) when there is a question about behaviour, especially with a big dog (wee dogs, no matter how aggressive never seem to be seen as such a threat) that the owner has to do the responsible thing. Deuce would have been put down much sooner if we'd lived anywhere with passing traffic or lots of people around - it does sound like an accident waiting to happen if she can't control him  :-\

Backinwellies

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 12:28:22 pm »
I wonder if the dog gets the exercise it really needs.
 A neighbour of mine had a dog which was OK with people but went for any other dog. as a result the female owner was afraid to let it off the lead ., ... so a hyper dog just got a controlled walk on a lead, never using all its energy. .... recipe for even more agression.   
 
 Also, even I, could feel the womans nerves as I walked past... so no wonder her dog went into agressive protection mode , it must have throught me and my dog were 'the enemy'

After 2 years it seems unlikely things will change for the better.  :(
Linda

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in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 02:01:24 pm »
Never owned this breed and the gundogs I have owned have always had the opposite problem ..... too enthusiastic to be friendly.  ::)


However, I think that many dogs seem to show more aggression when on the lead, especially towards other dogs. I really don't like it when other dog owners bring their on the lead dog to say hello to mine.


If it really is "aggressive" then perhaps it should be muzzled in public places. Don't like muzzles but people should not feel threatened when out and about.

Moleskins

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • England
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 03:01:11 pm »
The lady has had another alsation previously which went off it's legs but they kept it to the end, shows real dedication, I feel for her having this one and getting such a problem.
I've seen it  off the lead on occasion but as soon as anyone comes onto the field or nearby she does get it under control, quite honestly I think she'd be silly not to.
I admire her tenacity at getting as far as she has but seeing this backward lunge yesterday it made me think that if anything went wrong with the head collar and it slipped off somebody could be in real trouble.
Time flies like an arrow but fruit flies like a banana.

Old Shep

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • North Yorkshire
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2012, 10:20:31 pm »
She sounds to be trying really hard with a difficult situation.  If you have to pass her with your dog try not let the dogs walk straight towards each other - try veering off to one side so you'll be less of a threat, and the same yourself - look away and turn away if possible. 


[size=78%](we were feeding Bakers complete, which she said to stop immediately because the colourants in it were making him hyper)[/size]


Bakers has an awful lot to answer for - it should have a health warning on the side!
Helen - (used to be just Shep).  Gordon Setters, Border Collies and chief lambing assistant to BigBennyShep.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2012, 10:31:37 pm »
I had a German Wirehaired Pointer till last year when she died at 14.  German Breeds do seem to have an aggressive streak in them, partly due to what they are used for over there.  GWPs are trained to kill game, not just find and retrieve it as in the UK)
She was an absolute gem with people, brilliant with my grandkids or anyone else's for that matter - but other dogs were a no go.  I was advised to muzzle her by my vet when I moved down here.  I hated the idea but she accepted it well, and form that moment on i was able to relax, she relaxed, and I was able to let her run free with my other dogs and just call her to heel if we met any others.   I wouldn't have believed the change in her.

Perhaps you could suggest that to her?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2012, 10:39:48 pm »
Interesting that one of the things Barbara Sykes does with hyper and aggressive Border Collies, is to adjust their diet. Less protein I seem to remember. Also miles more exercise.

Dogs definitely pick up on your own nervousness. I used to pull Skye in and get up tight whenever we met a particular dog in the woods that Skye hated and would go for. As my ex pointed out, I was signalling to Skye that I was scared, this dog was trouble, and that therefore he needed to protect me - which he did very effectively!

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2012, 10:48:56 pm »
Thats just what I meant Jaykay - Hester was protecting me but when we both accepted that she was not allowed to bite, by her wearing a muzzle, them we both relaxed and she didn't go for other dogs then.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2012, 11:02:18 pm »
I can see how that would work Annie  :)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 10:37:03 am »
Dogs definitely pick up on your own nervousness. I used to pull Skye in and get up tight whenever we met a particular dog in the woods that Skye hated and would go for. As my ex pointed out, I was signalling to Skye that I was scared, this dog was trouble, and that therefore he needed to protect me - which he did very effectively!

Exactly so.  I once had a GSDxLab who was absolutely lovely with everything except other male dogs, and with them he was the devil incarnate. :o

I found I had to watch him like a hawk, and when he approached another male dog, stay well clear, let them sniff and do the initial greetings, then just before the moment when Moses would strike a pose and say, "Go on then - make my day", I would have to call him away.  If I called too soon, he'd have lost face so wouldn't come and if I left it a second too late, the other dog would have time to say, "Oh yeah?  You and whose army?" and it would be a case of diving in to seperate them.  (Incredibly, I only ever got bitten once doing this.)

A friend used to look after him when I was away, and Mose would always be worse with other male dogs when I got him back.  I eventually discovered that the friend had been so frightened of his having a fight, she'd call him and leash him whenever she saw another dog in the distance, and then hold him really close, being very nervous, as the other dog passed.  Of course what she transmitted to Moses was, "Other dogs are really scarey and I need protecting from them."

I'd planned to have this dog castrated when I first got him - he was a rescue, we reckoned probably about 12 months old when I got him - but my vet friend (male!  of course!  ::)) had talked me out of it.

Well, Moses had now become almost unmanageable around other male dogs, even by me, so I decided to get him castrated anyway.  It was explained to me that adult dogs produce testosterone in the adrenal glands in the kidneys as well as in the testes, so in some dogs castration later on in life may have minimal effect; it depends what proportion of his testosterone he produces in his adrenal glands.  It takes quite a time for the levels to reduce, plus of course there are some learned behaviours / habits to unlearn, but in Moses' case, he did become quite a bit more placid over a period of about 12 months.  I definitely did wish I'd had it done earlier - I'd been having to plan walk routes around where and when I didn't expect to come across other male dogs for quite a few years, and, I realised once he'd calmed down, I'd never been relaxed when he was off-lead in case another dog appeared unexpectedly.

So I absolutely would suggest to this lady that she try castration.  She surely won't breed from an animal with such a temperament quirk anyway, so she won't miss his nuts, and as long as she takes care with his diet so he doesn't get overweight, the worst that happens is she has a vet bill and not much difference.  But if she's lucky, as I was with Moses, and her dog produces most of his testosterone in his testes and not much if any in his adrenal glands, she may end up with a dog that's a lot more of a pleasure to take for a walk.

Her vet may suggest that she could try an anti-testosterone jab to "see what the effect of castration would be like."  I can't recommend this.  The vet friend who condemned me to years of unnecessary hassle succeeded in his persuasion largely through getting me to try one of these jabs on Mose.  The dog just basically slept for a month, listless, disinterested in anything, a great big flobby mound of blubber that was no fun to own.  When in the end I did get him castrated, it made no difference to him at all in any respect except that he did gradually become less aggressive towards other male dogs.

Whether she has him castrated or not, the GSD's owner will need to do some socialising training with the dog and - more importantly - with herself handling the dog as well.  The Breed Society should be able to tell you about trainers and clubs in your area.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 11:24:56 am »
I had German Shepherds for years, only losing Tanya last March. She was a rescue and came to us age 6 months. total screw ball. hated men and went crazy when the postman arrived. I worked on her, built up a trust and in return she became a loving animal who still now and again could show her nasty side when strangers appeared. The one thing I can say, she always backed down when I told her to.All my Shepherds were trained the same way as the police do. I knew that one word from me and they listened. I had their respect and they had mine. Dogs that are out of control are never safe. Wither its down to bad breeding ( parents were the same ) or handling, letting the dog get the upper hand where it decides it rules or the dog has been mistreated. Working dogs of all breeds need to be doing a job, kept busy and happy. Wrong food can cause them to be over the top just like a child with ADHD. This person has a dog that she cannot control and must act now to sort this out before someone gets hurt.

Backinwellies

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 01:08:18 pm »
When I got my collie cross from Wiccaways I had to sign to say I wouldn't ever feed him Bakers because of the effect it has on collies in particular.   there really should be a warning issued with it!

Linda
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
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doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 01:35:35 pm »
With all the bad press about the colourants, e numbers etc in this product I don't know why they are still in business. ::)
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

 

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