[robert waddell]

what surprises me more is      of the two breeds Mrs snoodles has  the Hampshire has went fat and the large blacks are in her  vets opinion just right       the Hampshire is world renowned as a lean pig     it could be he seen or her   a lot of washboard examples of pigs   
 
strange world    but then we are living in strange times

[princesspiggy]

wer all intrigued - how about some fotos?? 

[Beewyched]

wer all intrigued - how about some fotos?? 

Good idea Julia 
Piccys & measurements please 

[Mrs Snoodles]

I would definitely go for different feeding patterns according to purpose.

Robert, these pigs are not from a pedigree litter. They were brought in as store pigs and we thought they looked pretty good, were aware of the sows history and went down the breeding path. No cutsie factor.  We are only breeding these for meat.

 As you know they are the butchers favourite and get big very nicely.  Our thoughts were that we could get the litters to pork weight quickly, even outdoors. Less money spent means we could offer halves well reared, free range pork, gone to a local slaughterhouse at a really good price at a time when people are hard hit.

This is why we wanted to breed these pigs. We had no intentions of selling any weaners. We wanted all stock for meat.  They were put to the boar at the right time, and are sound with good teats and were fit and healthy. I have messed up, feeding them.  A pig fed for fattening is no go for breeding.
 My post is about feeding. Not breeding lineage. 
I don't think these pigs are crap stock. I've seen enough. My mistake was in their feeding regime   

[Mrs Snoodles]

what surprises me more is      of the two breeds Mrs snoodles has  the Hampshire has went fat and the large blacks are in her  vets opinion just right       the Hampshire is world renowned as a lean pig     it could be he seen or her   a lot of washboard examples of pigs   
 
strange world    but then we are living in strange times

Not really strange at all. The Hampshires were fed for meat initially, then we changed our minds. The large blacks have always been considered as breeding stock so never ever got near high protein food. Simples.

[Mrs Snoodles]

wer all intrigued - how about some fotos?? 

Would love to but have no idea how too. Working off an iPad as Internet works a bit better, although pretty dire anyway.

[robert waddell]

we feed them to live       it is what they do with the food that matters
 
if you have pure stock it does what it says on the label       without the cushion of a pedigree you cannot say for definate it is what breed you claim      there was a similar thread about the essex pig and that was blown out the water      sad and maybe a bit harsh for the poster  but there you go
 
commercial pigs are fed ad lib
 
and you have said it yourself you bought them as store pigs     and as the saying goes you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear

[rispainfarm]

 .  A pig fed for fattening is no go for breeding.
 

 I must admit, I have never fed differently between breeding and fattening stock, I work by eye, and up or lower the food according to how the pig looks. I agree with Mr pig that too fat and it could be unlikely to get in pig, but otherwise I have never fed differently.

[Beewyched]

 .  A pig fed for fattening is no go for breeding.
 

 I must admit, I have never fed differently between breeding and fattening stock, I work by eye, and up or lower the food according to how the pig looks. I agree with Mr pig that too fat and it could be unlikely to get in pig, but otherwise I have never fed differently.

Me too Liz  - feeding by eye is always the best way IMHO, especially with KKs.  I only differ it for nursing or weather/foraging conditions   

[princesspiggy]

i must be missing something here, iv only had british pigs so bear with me.
i know commercials are fed ablib as they r bred to put on muscle rather than fat.
i know hampshire are less likely to put on fat than british natives.


now have the hampshire grown too much muscle? or are they over weight?


if its the latter, u wouldnt want a fat pig or for breeding or meat,


anyhow chin up, we live and learn  think how good ul feel when u get it right next time! 

[RaisinHall Tamworths]

We feed our meat pigs and our show pigs, who are our breeding stock, different. Meat are kept on the leaner side so the meat isnt too fatty but the show pigs (breeders) are kept better covered. I dont understand how your Hampshires are no good for breeding? Just intrigued and interested to know the thinking behind it. I understand that if they are too fat and empty for too long they could find it difficult to get in pig. Could understand the other way round if it had been said they were too big for porkers but can't get the too big for breeding. 

[rispainfarm]

unless raison the vet actually meant by saying they were too big, that they were in fact too fat, surely that would make more sense. It would be good if mrs snoodles elaborated on the big bit and explained what the vet actually meant by big, was it size or what??

[Berkshire Boy]

If they are a bit overweight they will still get pregnant, might have a small litter but you can get weight off them easily when they are nursing. Don't put the feed up too much and they will use fat reserves to produce milk.

[Tiva Diva]

We feed our pigs the same (low protein) feed too - our vet and our pig mentor said that traditional breeds of pig didn't need "high protein" feeds - these were developed for the very fast growing, lean commercial pigs. The only differences are:
 the young (growing) pigs get less fruit/veg in their diet until 5 months. Then the meat pigs get a bit more apple pomace to help them finish well.
The lactating sows get waste goats milk
The mangalitzas get less of everything except bulk as they put on fat so easily.
We feed by eye too - but it took us a few chubby pigs to learn. If you're struggling to estimate how fat your pigs are, and you've got a vet out to scan anything on your holding, get them to scan the back fat depth on your pigs - very educational! (Or you could "borrow" one from your local maternity unit - not that I'd ever do that, of course!)

[Mrs Snoodles]

Tiva Diva....our vet said the same about modern foods, and they are seeing it across a variety of animals. Feed being too rich/good for youngsters and traditional breeds.  I am now on the hunt for an even lower protein feed or as, you have done, look at ways of mixing up the existing 16 percent with additional extras.

It's not a new way of thinking. I have working dogs and the debate surrounding the latest puppy foods and the early stages of growth in labradors is pretty hot. Obv doesn't relate to fat being laid down, but to muscle growth and detrimental weight on forming bone structures blah blah blah....