[colliewoman]

How about a long line?
Pop a harness on him and tie a 50 foot washing line to it. let him goon around trailing the line behind him keeping him within say 30 feet of you by calling him. If he doesn't respond you simply stamp on the line and hold it fast. They soon seem to learn that you have control no matter how far away they are!
Never do this with just a collar, an I would suggest keeping him muzzled with a basket muzzle til YOU get the hang of stamping on the line in time just in case.
With this method though, even if you don't get him 100% at least he has the freedom of the line
Worked a treat on my foxhound i used to have


I would be very cautious about letting a ewe or ram teach him. My guys would do serious damage to a dog when they have their lambs, and I wouldn't fancy the persons chances much if they got in the way trying to rescue the dog

[Alistair]

Longline and technique was how I trained him in the first place, his general recall is fine, it's just his hunting instinct has kicked in.

At the end of the day I think I might just try standing by fenced off sheep for an hour a day with him until he calms down and start a very gradual process of desensitisation.

I think he'll just have to be kept on the lead/longline when we're out near livestock end of story, I certainly can't see this process being anything other than a lifetime project.

I didn't really expect a quick fix

Ah well he's curled up asleep in the sun now, happy dog

[SallyintNorth]

SITN - Interesting. I know farmers round here talk of this method for solving sheep worrying but don't think I would feel comfortable putting my dog in that confrontational situation.

See, you have to calibrate the advice according to who is giving it. If your dog's just worried a farmer's sheep, and, having apologised and paid for the damage, you ask the farmer for his/her advice on curing the behaviour in your pet dog, the farmer is much more concerned to get a solution that protects the sheep than s/he is about one that keeps your dog from harm.

And in the farming scenario, a dog which worries sheep will be a dead dog pretty soon if it doesn't stop worrying sheep.  So the hard lesson by tup or mother ewe is worth trying - it might work and the dog might live.

Neither of which is how a pet owner wants to look at solving the problem!

[YorkshireLass]

http://www.sheepdog-training.co.uk/worrying.html any good? I haven't worked with him though.

[Old Shep]

Putting a dog in with a tup or ewe with lamb at foot can work, or sometimes it just makes the dog scared of a tup or ewe in a pen.  Chasing a running sheep is a completely different scenario.  Wouldn't it be nice if there were sheep who didn't run but turned around and ran at the dog ( one of my angora goats did this the other day to my rather interested collie cross  ).  The idea behind e-collars is that the dog thinks the sheep is giving it the shock, dog goes towards sheep - sheep runs - activates collar.  They then learn to return to owner if a sheep runs.  However I know someone with lurchers who has tried this method and still her dog ran and attacked a sheep a few weeks ago.  Had she taken your very responsible view of lead or long line wherever stock is around then the tragedy would not have happened.  I agree entirely with your decision and his life will not be any worse for being kept on a lead where there is stock.  You would not be putting him through any adverse training methods which could upset your relationship and he will be safe (not to mention the sheep).   

[Alistair]

Shep, my thoughts exactly

[Sylvia]

If you have a sighthound you have a dreadful responsibility where sheep/cats/little dogs are concerned. You just must not trust it off the lead if there is a possibility that they will chase sheep or course cats and small dogs. They will kill them!! That is a fact! I have owned and bred sighthounds for over forty years and, unless they are brought up from puppyhood with livestock/cats/toy dogs they WILL chase them if they run. In fact they will chase strange sheep etc. even if they don't bother with the ones they are used to. PLEASE don't take risks with your dog's or other people's animals lives
On another note do you know that George is not a lurcher but a "long dog". This is the term for a cross between sighthounds.
If you are interested(and my battery lasts) the difference is this.
 A sighthound or a long dog when coursing a hare will follow the true line of the hare, i.e. follow it on it's course.
Someone, either by design or accident, discovered that a sighthound crossed with something that had a portion of wit, usually a border collie would have the sense to realise that if it ran across the line and intercepted the hare it would catch it. This is known as "lurching" hence "lurcher". This is excellent if you want to catch a hare or rabbit but a major fault in a coursing dog.
Nowadays, of course, we don't course hares but plastic bags on a lure.
 
 

[doganjo]

Thanks for that explanation about 'long dogs', Sylvia - I didn't know that .  Just goes to show you are always learning. 

[Sbom]

So is it possible to train a Lurcher to be safe around livestock? I have been seriously considering getting a Lurcher type puppy as I just love them  we have sheep, cows and poultry  . I always presumed they could as I have two JRTs who are perfectly safe around our free range poultry as I was very firm with them as pups,. They even ignore the chicks but are the best ratters ever!
Sorry to hijack  this thread has just made me think.

[doganjo]

I don't know the answer to be honest, but I DO know that in bred instinct is extremely strong - that is why we have different breeds - they were bred for different purposes.  Labrador retrievers retrieve, spaniels were bred to hunt close to the gun, pointers to point, hold the game in a trance, to await the gun's presence.  Blood hounds for tracking etc etc  My breed is a French hunting gundog and boy are they obsessed with hunting!  So I suspect a lurcher may well chase instinctively.

You can to an extent control instincts but never overcome them entirely.   Due to training my girls hunt in a partnership with me, and the guns, but had they not had training they would be off self hunting.  My boy does that, but a recent reminder course has helped bring him back under control.

How much training it would take would I think depend on you being consistent and the temperament of the pup.

[SteveHants]

If I had the space, Id love a lurcher - there are so many rabbits on some of my grazings its unreal ad the warrens are all in the woods on the other side of the fence. Plus, it'd give me free dinners and dogfood.


If anyone has a whippet x bedlington going spare....

[SallyintNorth]

That's fascinating, Sylvia.  'Coursing' and 'lurching' - so obvious now!

Oh, Steve - that whippet x bedlington sounds lovely.  Please don't post any pics if you get one - especially if the seller has another spare bitch pup... 

[Alistair]

I'll have to revise everything I thought I knew

I've had 4 long dogs then  my others where wolfhound x, and two deerhound crosses.

[Sylvia]

Bedlinton x whippet is a beautiful cross and makes for a striking looking animal and if your idea is to use it for catching rabbits you couln't do much better (unless a pure-bred whippet )
As for training a sighthound/longdog/lurcher with stock you must start from puppyhood, otherwise it will always be a worry. The command "Leave it!!!" is most important.
My greyhounds are too old now to bother but I can honestly say that, when young, they would stand on deer if told to "leave it" Their training must be consistent and, maybe, a bit tough though. It's hard to sublimate basic instincts.

[SteveHants]

Bedlinton x whippet is a beautiful cross and makes for a striking looking animal and if your idea is to use it for catching rabbits you couln't do much better (unless a pure-bred whippet )

Aye, I like em - not had a lurcher in years. I like that cross cos its small and you can use it for ratting as well as rabbiting. Probably not fast enough to catch hares, which means I dont get tempted, there are loads of hares round here, although I bet the keeper would be up for a bit of coursing....