[Welshcob]

Footvax only does footrot

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/MSD_Animal_Health/Footvax/-34363.html

Unfortunately they are caused by different organisms, just to make our lives a bit more interesting!!   

[Foobar]

Pea gravel in the bottom will open up the cleats, and save you having to use too much footbath solution.

[SallyintNorth]

I think footvax does scald too, but I dont have any handy to check.

According to NOAH, Footvax is for:

the active immunisation of sheep as an aid to the prevention of footrot and reduction of lesions of footrot caused by serotypes of D. nodosus.

And for those, like me, who can never remember which way round it is, from NADIS:

Scald and footrot share the same primary cause, the bacterium Fusobacterium necrophorum which causes damage to the superficial layer of the skin between the claws and enables the establishment of other bacteria, including Dichelobacter nododus, which causes footrot.

In other words, Footrot is a secondary infection following infection by the scald causative agent, F. necrophorum.  Footvax protects against the secondary infection, D. nodosus.

So Footvax won't help reduce scald, but will protect scaldy lambs from progressing to full-blown footrot.

 

Ah, just seen Welshcob already picked up the NOAH bit.  Never mind, we've got the bit about the two bacteria now as well.

[Bramblecot]

Mallows,  If you are down this way, you are welcome to borrow my plastic footbath, it is about 8' long and 2' wide. PM me

[SteveHants]

I think footvax does scald too, but I dont have any handy to check.

According to NOAH, Footvax is for:

the active immunisation of sheep as an aid to the prevention of footrot and reduction of lesions of footrot caused by serotypes of D. nodosus.

And for those, like me, who can never remember which way round it is, from NADIS:

Scald and footrot share the same primary cause, the bacterium Fusobacterium necrophorum which causes damage to the superficial layer of the skin between the claws and enables the establishment of other bacteria, including Dichelobacter nododus, which causes footrot.

In other words, Footrot is a secondary infection following infection by the scald causative agent, F. necrophorum.  Footvax protects against the secondary infection, D. nodosus.

So Footvax won't help reduce scald, but will protect scaldy lambs from progressing to full-blown footrot.

 

Ah, just seen Welshcob already picked up the NOAH bit.  Never mind, we've got the bit about the two bacteria now as well.

I knew I'd heard of farmers using it when the sheep had scald, now I know why....

[Mallows Flock]

I bit the bullet and bought a footbath online... looks like I am gonna be needing it for a few years to come so a good investment!!! Thanks everyone for the advice. looks like Footvax is also gonna be on the cards too.  I have been given a couple of kilos of copper sulphate to use with some fairy liquid in the footbath...but i am unsure as to whether I should use it or not due to copper toxicity issues in sheep! Anyone else ever use it?

[SallyintNorth]

Copper sulphate in a footbath will be fine, just so long as the sheep aren't thirsty!    Seriously, some git did footbath a flock which had been water-deprived for 17 hours; they drank the footbath and were badly poisoned.  But so long as the sheep aren't gasping for water, they'll be fine.

I think you may have to think about disposal, though - don't tip footbath contents away on the same piece of ground.

[Mallows Flock]

Yes Sally..... I woke up at 3am thinking about how to dispose of Copper Sulphate! LOL! I may have to drain it into a barrel and tip it onto my 'dead' piece of garden at home! Nothing grows there anyway! LOL!
I did read about sheep drinking it - but my babies always have access to fresh water and i will make sure they are running through...not stopping for a a sneaky drink!

[SallyintNorth]

I did read about sheep drinking it - but my babies always have access to fresh water and i will make sure they are running through...not stopping for a a sneaky drink!

I think they need to stand in copper sulphate; you can run them through 2% formalin, but they definitely have to stand in zinc sulphate - 10 mins min, I think - and I think copper sulphate is the same.

Don't worry, they won't drink it unless it's a heatwave and they've been without water for hours beforehand.

[Mallows Flock]

I think I will stand them in it just to make sure. Bought a bag of hydrated lime today too and put that in their shelter.... they all walked through it immediately, handily enough. One of them was holding her hoof up loads after...she was one that was suffering with scald/stripe.  I had already alamycin'd her foot yesterday so I am guessing the lime was just making the sore a little sorer temporarily!

[Fronhaul]

We are trying the footvax route.  The wet weather here has caused havoc with feet and I am deeply ashamed by the number of limping sheep we have here.  Mainly the Jacobs but one or two of the BWMs and Shetlands aren't great.  I spent a long time agonising about footbaths and whether or not to use formalin or copper sulphate and had my mind made up by a kind friend who took the decision for me and arrived to help with feet armed with a footbath and formalin.  He won't use copper sulphate because he once lost a ewe to copper poisoning (not footbath related).  Anyway he showed me how much formalin he uses and the proportion was indeed very small - about 1% formalin - which he feels doesn't harden the feet too much. 

So around 165 sets of feet later with aching backs all of mine except the butchers lambs have had footvax, and all have had their feet trimmed where necessary and been run through the footbath twice and are due another run through the bath tomorrow.  One or two had a sneeze from the formalin fumes but by keeping things well ventilated it really wasn't too bad.  And if my sheep can have feet in as good condition as my friend who has now set an identical regime for my sheep to the one he adopts for his then I will be very happy.

Two issues arose with footvax for us.  Firstly I was advised not to use the spot below the neck the manufacturers suggest because doing so can lead to difficulties at shearing time.  Ours have been injected above the shoulder instead which means reactions will be less noticeable in the show sheep and less liable to lead to cuts at shearing time.  But please if anyone else is going to deviate from the recommended injection site then ask your vet first.  Mine was happy with it but others may disagree.

Secondly please be careful.  Footvax is dangerous stuff for humans.  If you accidentally inject yourself do not ignore the advice to seek immediate medical attention.  This is one occasion when it really is necessary to head for a doctor if an accident occurs. 

As for culling in cases of footrot I remain undecided.  I accept that in some cases susceptibility to footrot is clearly genetic.  And if you have a family with that susceptibility then culling is sadly probably the answer.  I do however have a ewe that had appalling feet when she came to me.  I failed dismally to sort her out and decided she was so nice in other respects I would ask the vet to take a look when he came to do something else.  After a really skilled trim and a jab of long acting antibiotic 18 months ago she now has super feet that require little or no attention.  Her lambs have good feet as well. 

[SallyintNorth]

I'll be interested to hear how the regime works out, Fronhaul.    it does the trick.

On culling for bad feet, there are a number of approaches.  Ours is to cull repeat offenders, but to allow any sheep to need a bit of help once.  Our land is very wet, even in a 'normal' summer; I'm not sure it'd be practical to cull every sheep that has bad feet even once. 

I have several times considered introducing a bit of Exmoor Horn into the mix - they have very robust feet in their native, equally wet Exmoor.

[debbietownhead]

I bit the bullet and puchased a foot bath new but off ebay.  Well worth the money and we now use it all year round when we have schools visiting us to footbath the visitors firstly as they enter our farm and then again when they leave.

[Tilly]

 
Hi Mallow`s Flock
I just thought I would add a few of my personal experiences  ....
 
I used to use formalin when  footbathing the sheep, but found the fumes awful and always ended up with a headache when using the stuff.It also seemed pretty harsh on the poor sheep,leaving them very very tender on their feet.
 
I now use a product called golden hoof which is a  licenced zinc sulphate footbath.It is far more user friendly and I think does a really good job on lame sheep-the zinc is very healing.
 
Also, in the past have used footvax -It does seem to work ,but I found the injection site can swell and leave a permanent  lump on the sheep
 
hope you get a footbath sorted soon ......
 
Tilly 

[SteveHants]

As for culling in cases of footrot I remain undecided.  I accept that in some cases susceptibility to footrot is clearly genetic.  And if you have a family with that susceptibility then culling is sadly probably the answer.  I do however have a ewe that had appalling feet when she came to me.  I failed dismally to sort her out and decided she was so nice in other respects I would ask the vet to take a look when he came to do something else.  After a really skilled trim and a jab of long acting antibiotic 18 months ago she now has super feet that require little or no attention.  Her lambs have good feet as well.

It is hard in summers like this  - I have had one or two limpers, but they seem to have got better before I have had chance to look at them, which is fine.


I tend not to look at culling for undesireable traits as being 'sad'. I approach it from a positive "who will I keep?" as  opposed to a negative "who will I cull" aspect and also when you do cull, you find that you suddenly have a load more time on your hands because you are not dealing with that 5% of your flock who are causing you all the work, it is also those sheep who cause you the majority of your stress and it is nice not to have it.