[bigchicken]

Farther to my post yesterday. I was back today at the same job and this time the dog bit me on the thigh very sore and I was quite angry , my gut reaction was to kick the s**t out of the dog but I didnt. What would you do in this situation. I know if this was my dog it would

 never been able to bit again leathal injection at the vets.   

[jaykay]

Well, I'd be furious with the owner for allowing you to be bitten again! But yeh, don't kick it, it's really the owner's fault not it's. A dog that's guarding is fair enough - but the owner should be making sure it can't harm anyone. Some of the dogs at my neighbour's farm would bite 'intruders' -  so they're on chains!

[bigchicken]

This is an attitude that is beyond me What pleasure is there in keeping a dog like that, in my opinion its like having a ticking bomb. OK so its not the dogs fault but it was the dog that bit me OK is damaged some how but it was the dog that bit me. OK the woman cant handle the dog, The dog is dangerous no ifs or buts. In my opinion any dog that shows unwanted aggression towards a human is a danger.

[jaykay]

Well yes, I wouldn't want my dogs to be so aggressive.

[colliewoman]

unfortunately denial and apathy of problem dog owners is the biggest problem of all.
If it were me i would refuse to leave my vehicle until the dog had been penned up. keep doing that and she will eventually get the message that something must be done with regards to her problem dog.

[Old Shep]

Ouch that sounds painful and a bit scarey 

I think you are within your rights to prosecute if a dog owner is not in control of a dog, it doesn't have to bite just give the impression it may attack.  Not saying you should prosecute, but I would certainly talk to the dog owner about her responsibility to safeguard visitors to their property.  You can't even let your dog bite a burglar these days!

Around here Postmen seem to be advised not to enter a property if there is a loose dog.  I had a note a couple of months ago from our postie - "couldn't deliver yesterday because dog on the loose".  The only dog we have loose at anytime unsupervised is the 16 year old working sheep dog who is very arthritic and slow, deaf, almost blind, and not a threat to anyone 

[goosepimple]

Thanks again all, OH and myself have just been reading your replies.  Will get on to Amazon and order a copy of B Sykes' book after writing this.  Will look at the diet thing - we have been giving complete foods but were thinking of changing to Iams, but will look at Chappie too.  She is given loads of exercise and 2 x 45min approx walks on top of her running around the place (we have 5 acres of doggy fun).  She does tend to retreat upstairs under the bed at evenings and did snap OH when he tried to get her out of there once.  Our kids are pretty quiet compared to most and don't smother her but she does see them as under her at the moment, but we'll work on that.  She has her cage too which is bedtime only, it's in the main room at the moment so perhaps we should change that to a quieter space.  Thank you, thank you all, this is good stuff and hopefully things will improve - you have to learn to live with your kids and when a new one comes along everyone has to adjust, to redress the balance, we're just working through that phase I hope.  Many thanks and will post on this again.

[SallyintNorth]

Our kids are pretty quiet compared to most and don't smother her but she does see them as under her at the moment, but we'll work on that. 

You could try getting the kids to be the ones that feed her.  Especially if they make her sit until they say, "Go,", - and then let her eat in peace, of course!

[goosepimple]

Doing that now, all these things will become habit in time but it is all new to us at the moment! thanks Sally

[Dougal]

I've been very lucky with my dogs, never any worries abot biting at all. That said they have thier own space and the only time that is invaded is when there is a problem of some sort or to give them a wee pat on the way past.

Control of feed can be  a good way of ensuring that the dog knows that it is at the bottom of the pile. One possabilty is instead of the kids feeding the dog they take the food away from the dog, an action that you must let the dg see that you will enforce so that the dog knows that they are above it in the pecking order.

Lastly, bite the dog back! Next time it nips grab the scruff (and the muzzle!) lift it clean off the ground and chop on an ear! Make sure it hurts the dog good and proper. If it's yelping then your about halfway hard enough! Sound very cruel but I'd rather be cruel for 30 seconds than use a number 6 down the left barrel! The dog will wriggle like mad so have a damned good grip. I've only heard of people doing it but I know a number of game keepers and shepherds that swear by this method (works on horses too!). Once bitten thrown the dog down and send it back to it's bed/safe place to lick it's wounds!

One word of caution, try to keep the dog away from the more organic elements of the farm before you bite it!
All the best

[goosepimple]

We have been grabbing her by the nose/mouth and forcing her head to the ground and saying NO very firmly, but if it's outside it is difficult to then return her to a naughty spot, but she has got the message and would stop.  I would tend not to thump her although I must admit we have done it a couple of times, I felt very uneasy about that and if there is another route I would prefer to take it.  For the record, she's not hugely nippy, just a bit of a spoilt toddler I think and not happy when she doesn't get her own way, but as with kids this could escalate.  Think we did a good job of breaking the kids   ;Dso hoping we will get around this one too!

[jaykay]

I have always bitten young puppies ears when they have 'played' too hard, having watched their mums do it. Not dreadfully hard, just enough to cause a startled yelp. It's always worked to solve that particular issue. But I think that's more about teaching puppies what level of mouth pressure is funny and what isn't.

I don't know how much it'd work on this particular issue.

My ex, who is a police dog trainer always says that any aversion training should be done extremely hard the first time and you may never need to do it again, certainly not much. He says most people's way of try gently, try a bit harder and so on just desensitises a dog to the punishment/aversion. And you make an almighty loud noise and fuss too.

So one way to go, immediately a dog does something wrong (timing is all) is to throw a choke chain (It hurts when it hits but not terribly so but makes a clatter too) and go bananas - waving your arms around, chasing the dog, shouting loudly but with the lowest voice you can manage - you should look like Basil Fawlty    A border collie will be pretty traumatised by it all - but it will remember. It completely stopped my dog collie even looking at sheep, in the days he was a fell-walking pet - he was totally trustworthy.

Now of course, he's a proper sheep dog and they're fair game 

[deepinthewoods]

i cured a nippy dog in about ten seconds, it was a lurcher youngster who got carried away playing and bit, so immediatley i forcibly stuck two fingers down its gullet and made it gip, it happened twice and she never bit again.

[SallyintNorth]

Well, I haven't read the Barbara Sykes book that so many of you clearly think very highly of (I've ordered a copy, just haven't got it yet.)  And I'm certainly not going to argue with jaykay  or her ex about dog handling techniques.

However... I have in my time trained a number of dogs of various types using some of the "I'm boss and I'm going to make sure you know it" techniques listed here.  Personally, I would use these techniques with caution with a nervous young border collie bitch; I'd be concerned I could unwittingly create a nervous aggression problem.  I would certainly not advise a novice dog handler to try these techniques on such a dog unless advised to do so by an experienced handler with proven track record with this kind of dog in this sort of situation and who has witnessed the dog exhibiting the unwanted behaviours.

The throwing a chain - or bunch of keys, anything that'll clatter - is a good distractor.  Derek Scrimgeour's technique is to never threaten the dog directly, only ever to threaten the ground / place it was about to be, ie., between where it is now and where you don't want it to be.  He accompanies that with a gruff noise, after a few repeats he only needs to make that gruff noise for the dog to know it is thinking about doing the wrong thing! 

Do you have a good dog club near you, goosepimple?  Years ago I was lucky enough to live in striking distance of Cricklade, where a group of qualified and very talented and experienced obedience trainers held weekly classes for all levels, starting with puppy socialisation and going on up to competitive obedience if you wanted to go that far.  They were brilliant at summing up the dog and handler(s), demonstrating the techniques - and the instantly amended behaviours in the dog - and then helping the handler to achieve the same result.  If you had such a class nearby, it would be worth a few visits.  But do check it out first before taking the dog - sadly not all classes are blessed with such excellent trainers as the Cricklade one.

[Penninehillbilly]

just a thought - we were given an old English sheepdog (about 4yr old), the first time she chased the geese she was told off with 'bad dog' the second time I was so cross (she still had feathers in her mouth when I caught up with her, goose was unharmed) I literally grabbed her by the scruff, lifted her as much as I could and SHOOK her. She avoided the geese after that. It's not often I would do something like that but with poultry about it had to be a short sharp lesson.