[Brucklay]

Zip was micro chipped on his 2nd Jab visit and didn't flinch - when I saw the size of the need I sort of regretted saying yes - but he was a brave wee boy and was more interested in a finger to nibble!! Started our propar classes and did ok - found the 2 older lab. pups a bit vigorous but knew 'people' were friendly so hide by a few different legs - the actual lesson part went well but even though we've been practicing he still won't lie down - sort of rolls up in a ball!! Think I'm going to need help on that one - sits very nicely though!!

[jaykay]

Get him sitting, then offer him food (or a finger  ) and move it towards you, at floor level, away from him, so you 'pull' him from sitting to lying. When you've got him in an approximate position, give your lie down command. The idea is to associate the body posture with the command. I have to say Skye developed the funniest bottom shuffle to start with and I couldn't carry on for laughing - but we got there in the end 

Next stage is to give the command from sitting, with your hand pointing to his nose - as you say 'down' or whatever, move your hand swiftly down so you're now pointing to where his nose now should be - if that description makes sense?

[Brucklay]

Thank you jaykay - off out for another lesson in half an hour so we'll give that a go - I was told to put the food between his front paw's but as I say he just ends up in a ball - giving the german shepherd her treats last night I realised I trained her fine - perfect from sit to lie down so I guess I'll get there with Zip - don't want to get shown up in class!!

[goosepimple]

It will be exactly 1 year tomorrow since we brought our bc Scout home - it has taken the year for her to calm down enough that I think we can start training - from all the dvd's etc we've looked at it would definately be easier to train a pup with an older dog who knows the ropes (this is our first dog).  We still take her through the sheep field on a lead - I did let her off with our new sheep a week ago and one of the castlemilk moorits (who jump around like giselles anyway) promptly jumped over the dyke into my farmer neighbours field in fright.  We couldn't get her back and had to go into his field the next day and set the dog off the lead again to make her jump back over - she did really well standing still while the poor sheep scrambled over the wall - she was frightened of our soays last year though - they would stamp at her and go for her, our pygmy goats go for her big time but she is undeterred at present, we'll see how she fares in time.  The hens and the muscovies peck her nose.  She's lovely but I must admit after bringing up a family, I don't think I'd do the puppy thing again (sorry Scoutie )

[jaykay]

I realised I trained her fine - perfect from sit to lie down so I guess I'll get there with Zip

I'm sure you will!

The difference I found between GSDs and BCs is that the GSDs do as you tell them and do it well. BCs can do as they think you're wanting, before you've thought of it yourself! By which I really mean that BCs are so smart, they anticipate and read such tiny signals, so you can inadvertently teach them the wrong things if you don't have your wits about you.

They, like all dogs, are also quite good at training their owners 

[Brucklay]

Oh how I agree with you there - Zip see the box with treats and sits!! If only I was 20 years younger and my brain was a little faster - but will try - if nothing else he's a bright spark in my day, a joy and a laugh to have about. The two pet BC's we lost this year were never really 'officially trained' they just got used to our way - which may have taken longer but were wonderful dogs - now making me sad thinking of Tess and Blue but they had very happy life's and really that's all I wish for Zip - but please keep sending adivce

[jaykay]

if nothing else he's a bright spark in my day, a joy and a laugh to have about

This made me grin to read it - and made me go and tell mine that they are my bright sparks too

[Tilly]

Hi everyone 

One thing I did find out when I was learning how to train my first sheepdog gypsy is how important it is what sheep you start with.

 At training classes -the sheep used  for dogs just starting are" well dogged" by that I mean sheep used to being worked by dogs.They have learned to stay in a group and not to scatter and stick close even to the point of following the handler, this in turn  allows you the best change to get the dog and sheep in the best position to successfully achieve a manoeuvre  e,g come bye,   making learning easy and allowing your youngster the best chance to get it right!
Tilly

[SallyintNorth]

Good tip, Tilly - but there is a but...

The sheep quite quickly get trained too, so start to anticipate what you'll be getting the dogs to do.  I used to approach the 'training paddock' with the pup and see the sheep run up to the top of the hill, back to the middle, through the two hurdles back to the middle again - and we hadn't even entered the field yet! 

Which is why you will often see 5 or so sheep advertised as suitable for sheepdog training... They're no longer useful where they are as they know all the excercises! 

But you're absolutely right, the sheep need to be calm, completely predictable, and most of all, think that coming to you is their best option when under any pressure.  Then you know what the sheep will do, you know you can keep them safe, and you can concentrate on telling the trainee what it's doing.

[goosepimple]

Hmm,
so our daft 1 year old bc and a bunch of jumpy native soays and moorits will all take a bit of time then  ....we'll keep practising

[robert waddell]

sally that reminds me off a neighbour that bought a working sheep dog   the seller demonstrated the dog working  excellent just what he wanted got it home diddly squat    it was the sheep that were trained the dog just ran at there back

[SallyintNorth]

sally that reminds me off a neighbour that bought a working sheep dog   the seller demonstrated the dog working  excellent just what he wanted got it home diddly squat    it was the sheep that were trained the dog just ran at there back

I've heard that story a number of times.  In my experience, it's usually the handler...   

Seriously, some collies will work for pretty much anyone, but even the very flexible ones take a while to bond with a new handler.  It's unrealistic to buy a dog and expect it to work immediately for you the way it worked for the handler who demonstrated it to you - or even to work for you at all, at first.  What is being demonstrated is the dog's capability to work with a handler to whom it is bonded and who knows how to handle it. 

BH had to buy a trained dog a few years back when his only collie unexpectedly died in the night, just before lambing time.  A nearby farmer had a bitch in training with the local sheepdog trainer and said BH could have her if he wanted; his own need was not so urgent and he could have another one at a later date.  We saw her, she seemed fine, we brought her back to BH's farm.  (I didn't live here then.)

A few days in, BH asked me to see what I made of her, he couldn't get her to do a thing.  Within 10 minutes I had Come Bye and Away, Lie Down, That'll Do, and Walk Up.  Not great, weak on the sheep, not good flanks, but responding to the commands and working the sheep.  Thing is, I've been trained by handlers who trial, I know how they command the dogs and hence how our local guy had trained this bitch to respond.  BH, like most farmers, does things his way - and Mist didn't speak his language yet.

By mid-summer, BH had her doing what he needed, and now, they're a real team - and I can't get her to do a thing! 

[sabrina]

Rascal started puppy class on Friday. due to being ill on and off for the past month he had only been on the lead 3 times so i had no high hopes of him doing well. Started off trying to hide under my chair. Once on the floor he walked better than I thought, did a sit right away and a recall so i was most  surprised. i expect that as he gets used to everyone he will bring out his true naughty self.

We had grandchildren here for Christmas and he was a star so well behaved, they loved him.

[Brucklay]

I was back with Zip at class on Sunday after 'icy drive' and 'christmas' break. He did the in and out of poles really well to my total surprise, really enjoyed playing with his pall a husky pretty much his size - but is not too keen on being passed around class and won't really take food/tip bits from anyone else but overall a good class and as soon as he got in the van he was fast asleep!!

[Dougal]

don't worry about him not taking food from anyone else. He's a collie, they don't get more one person than collies! And if you want him to work then you need to be confident that he will work for you alone and not decide to visit next door for a play with the kids when you are half way through a job. Its rather frustrating when they do that !! Glad he's doing grand all the same though.