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Author Topic: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?  (Read 28253 times)

shetlandpaul

  • Joined Oct 2008
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2011, 05:29:17 pm »
Quote
Chewing the cud has nothing to do with them building up of immunity, but it helps the cow to digest its grass more effectively, so i don't see the connection and they don't spit it out on the ground. I understand the principle of feed back and have done it many times before to gilts, but if there is no disease present in the dung there is no guarantee that it will achieve anything. I've feed afterbirth, died piglets, stillborns back to gilts as a means of building up gilt immunity, but that holds higher risks(so only practice it when necessary), as it can make the situation worse instead of better in some cases, so good judgement(and good advice) is necessary. Its just that feedback is too miss rather than hit.
As to getting a resistance to wormer, just periodically use a dfferent one, then that won't happen. Applies to drugs as well.

i really hope your not in the uk. animal health would have a fit if they found you feeding dead stock to your pigs. how can you justify that practice. also its just plain wrong.

Mr Pig

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2011, 05:56:47 pm »
The practice of feeding dead piglets to pigs would be considered illegal in the UK where strict guidelines on the disposal of dead stock are proscribed. Further, the practice is dangerous as it can give the gilt a taste for piglets leading to her killing and eating her litter. The feeding of afterbirth can have a similar outcome.

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2011, 08:25:54 pm »
so that will be us posting crap now ?????

 ;D ;D ;D Slightly off topic, but I had taken some poo samples from the ponies, properly wrapped, to the Post Office. My chum's eight year old son came with me. As I handed over the package to the nice lady, S informed the crowded Post Office " there's poo in there you know". Open ground and let me sink into it  ;D

princesspiggy

  • Guest
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2011, 08:12:57 am »
i can understand why placentas get eaten (saw it on tv once) as they are so high in iron, whats the thinking behind eating stillborns?

Stevie G

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2011, 12:57:41 pm »
The term "feed-back" refers to the feed back of dung/stilborns/piglets(weaner/sow or piglet scour) to gilts inorder to stimulate the gilts immune system in producing antibodies against a particular disease ie Ecoli scour.
This, I think, can still be done in the UK with the authority of a Vet, but caution should be shown when doing this as it can in some cases make the situation worse, rather than better ie with Swine Dysentry, Foot and Mouth, etc.
The last time I feed liquidised piglets back to gilts/sows was in 1994, when our farm had an outbreak of Abbottstown scour.  This is the only time I have feed piglets back to gilts and sows. There after all we used to do was to throw piglet/weaner scour on the floor of the gilt pens to aid in build- up of their immunity to farm diseases.
The vaccination(with Porcol 5, Erysorb, Parvovac, etc.) of gilts it what I have mainly carried out over the years. I have very rarely relied on feed-back alone.
Feeding liquidised piglets back to gilts/sows does NOT cause cannibalism.
Feed-back does work, but only if the disease is present in what you are throwing back, otherwise it is a waste of time.
Vaccination, in conjunction with feed-back, is always the best way to go.


shetlandpaul

  • Joined Oct 2008
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2011, 01:45:06 pm »
i don't see how it can be legal. i honestly don't see our vet suggesting that we feed a dead piglet to a sow. are you in the uk and have you read defras rules. i think delibertly exposing your pigs to an unknown virus/bacteria is chancy to say the least. it may help with there immunity but its a little old fashioned.

Blonde

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2011, 01:56:04 pm »
The practice of feeding dead piglets to pigs would be considered illegal in the UK where strict guidelines on the disposal of dead stock are proscribed. Further, the practice is dangerous as it can give the gilt a taste for piglets leading to her killing and eating her litter. The feeding of afterbirth can have a similar outcome.
y Hypothetically....... So if your pig farrrows during the night and she has say 3 dead pigs on the way through... you dont see them in the morning..... where have they gone, they did not get up and walk away,  therefore she must have consumed them along with the afterbirth.    It is wrong to say they dont eat the own dead piglets and it is also wrong to say they dont eat their afterbirth unless they farrow in a crate and cannot turn around to have access to it and it is left ther for the worker to remove in the morning.

There is no harm in feeding afterbirth back to gilts to help them get over or arond the herd diseases.  I have spoken to a vet who has recommended the idea of a feed back program along with a vaccination   program.  I dont feed piglets liquidised either, but after birth yes and dung yes.

Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2011, 02:18:51 pm »
Hi,

I bowed out of this thread some time ago, but have been following it with interest.

Just a plea from me to any new pig keepers in the UK - Please do not consider feeding piglets and or dung / scour to your pigs, there is no need, and it is a highly dubious practice.
www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk - Safe Secure shopping for all your livestock equipment and supplies.
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faith0504

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Cairngorms
  • take it easy and chill
    • blaemuir cottage
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2011, 02:58:37 pm »
I'm not a pig keeper, but gosh this seems so wrong, i can get my head round an animal cleaning up after the birth, but liquidising its just ssssoooo wrong  ??? :o :o

shetlandpaul

  • Joined Oct 2008
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2011, 03:31:21 pm »
there is a diffrence from the pig cleaning the after birth and any dead up. and the farmer infecting them with possibly dangerous germs. ive never seen my pigs eating the poo. i don't see why they would but hey im no expert. but defra would jump on this practice your feeding an animal food source to them.
why are your pigs becoming so vunerable to farm yard bugs.
just think were not allowed to give them stale bread if its been in the kitchen just in cases its been in contact with animal products.

just googled the subject
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Kqw2gCZFfhoC&pg=PT1103&lpg=PT1103&dq=feeding+piglets+intestines+to+sows&source=bl&ots=AX2Zv-GjGL&sig=cMbSvvxm-gz9NQPeG7ktCQPXrxY&hl=en&ei=5Ep2TfSGIMexhQfHifWFBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=feeding%20piglets%20intestines%20to%20sows&f=false


welshlass181

  • Joined Jan 2011
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2011, 03:40:00 pm »
We don't have a trough, but what we do is give a section of fresh hay the length of the pen and scatter the food on this so they root more.  Not sure if this is right or wrong as we're new to it all lol going to get/make a trough for winter tho.

Hardfeather

  • Guest
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2011, 07:25:53 pm »
When I die, please please don't let me come back as a pig.

Blonde

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2011, 11:44:30 pm »
When I die, please please don't let me come back as a pig.
dWhy not...a pig is very resourseful when if comes to finding food and if it means going through their dung well so be it.

On a lighter note,  every herd has its own bugs...regardless of what any of you might think.  If you are  going to mix  two mobs then you have to feed back the dung the of the older sows an give it to the younger sows to allow them to build up any immunity to what ever the sows may be carrying in their system....and that is on Vets advice.......This subjects has been thrashed around well and truly.......

Stevie G

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2011, 02:44:49 am »
Hi,

I bowed out of this thread some time ago, but have been following it with interest.

Just a plea from me to any new pig keepers in the UK - Please do not consider feeding piglets and or dung / scour to your pigs, there is no need, and it is a highly dubious practice.

I would just like to make this point that, and I am glad that I am not necessarily the one being picked on,
is that the term feedback means that you are not actually getting the gilt to eat piglets dung, just getting her to rumage about in it, hence being EXPOSED to it.
 
This practice I personally have not done for sometime(the feeding back of piglets was in 1994 in which time the law has changed, especially as Foot and Mouth and Mad Cows, disease, etc., have gone and come.) and mainly do vaccination(when I am working with pigs).

Feedback in certain cases is not always a good idea as it can worsen the problem ie with Swine Dysentry, Swine fever, Food and mouth, etc., rather than make it better.

Feedback, if used, should not be done without consultation of a Vet(of which Blonde has done). Iam surprised that Blonde is feeding back afterbirth, Stills, etc., as I thought that had gone out the window a very long time ago!!!
Times, surely Blonde, have moved on! :o

As to "there is never a need" that is just foolish talk.
Most people would have no need to do it, but there are occassions when it is warranted.

Blondes an Ozzie living in Australia(pig farm ownwer) and iam English, living in Australia(moved here 5 years ago).
Me and Blonde don't always agree on things and so is life and that makes things rather more interesting, hey Blonde!! :wave:

Another interesting thing is that Blondes Vet is English(snigger,snigger), but I won't mention his name!
Well respected I may add. :-*





« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 02:51:33 am by Stevie G »

Blonde

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2011, 06:41:40 am »
Hi,

I bowed out of this thread some time ago, but have been following it with interest.

Just a plea from me to any new pig keepers in the UK - Please do not consider feeding piglets and or dung / scour to your pigs, there is no need, and it is a highly dubious practice.

I would just like to make this point that, and I am glad that I am not necessarily the one being picked on,
is that the term feedback means that you are not actually getting the gilt to eat piglets dung, just getting her to rumage about in it, hence being EXPOSED to it.
 
This practice I personally have not done for sometime(the feeding back of piglets was in 1994 in which time the law has changed, especially as Foot and Mouth and Mad Cows, disease, etc., have gone and come.) and mainly do vaccination(when I am working with pigs).

Feedback in certain cases is not always a good idea as it can worsen the problem ie with Swine Dysentry, Swine fever, Food and mouth, etc., rather than make it better.

Feedback, if used, should not be done without consultation of a Vet(of which Blonde has done). Iam surprised that Blonde is feeding back afterbirth, Stills, etc., as I thought that had gone out the window a very long time ago!!!
Times, surely Blonde, have moved on! :o

As to "there is never a need" that is just foolish talk.
Most people would have no need to do it, but there are occassions when it is warranted.

Blondes an Ozzie living in Australia(pig farm ownwer) and iam English, living in Australia(moved here 5 years ago).
Me and Blonde don't always agree on things and so is life and that makes things rather more interesting, hey Blonde!! :wave:

Another interesting thing is that Blondes Vet is English(snigger,snigger), but I won't mention his name!
Well respected I may add. :-*






He is the only vet I reckon worth having on Farm.....So knowledgable across the board when I comes to pigs.   Yes....... he has been to the farm just recently and suggested feed back to the gilts only...to allow them to catch up on the sows bugs and give immunity.  He has also suggested a vaccination program to fit in with the pigs....as we have had a few problems here in the last few months.  but looks like we have come out the other end  not too worse off, but with 6 months lost production.   It is good when you can email a good vet you know and bounce things off him at random and get a good  answer back...... I feel very priveledge that I can do that.   sorry Stevie, but I guess I am just spoilt for choice.



 

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