The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Leri on February 26, 2011, 11:59:33 pm
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Hiya.
I would love your opinion on this please?
I have just bought a pig trough for my (not sure what the term is for 18 week old males we are fattening? Porkers?)
Previously we were feeding them rolls (the great big chunky easy to find on the ground nuts) on the grounmd and they were perfectly happy.
I, however, wasn't so sure they were growing enough so thought maybe they should be on a grower rather than still on sow and weaner rolls (breeder food basically) so I bought grower but for some reason grower only comes in stupid tiny nuts - unfair I think to feed this on the ground. So since all the sheep troughs are in the sheds right now as we are busy lambing I have bought a pig trough. They get it and are fine. But what is the general opinion advice of aeveryone on this and also the type of feed.
Thank you xx
Leri
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Hi,
Generally there is only a small % protein difference between sow & weaner and grower pellets - we alyays use sow and weaner for our pigs, and they finish fine.
Best to feed from a trough if you can or even a piece of corrugated iron on the ground, as it prevents wastage.
if they are being a tad slow to grow have you considered worming them or carrying out a worm count? were they wormed brfore you bought them ?
Thanks
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Have to disagree SfS, we only feed in a trough if the weather is very very bad and the ground a quagmire. Otherwise, we scatter the pellets widely on the ground. Give pigglies lots to do and makes the two highlights of their day last much longer. I find them very adept at not standing on pellets and I never see much waste.
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We use the trough when the pigs are younger or the pen is very muddy. A bit of mud they can cope with, even though they do stand on the food they'll eat it anyway, never a pellet to be seen once they've gone over it. :D
When the pigs are bigger, the trough can get too small depending on how many pigs are in the pen. So unless it's very muddy we scatter little piles of feed all over the pen (the idea of a 7-year old, and it worked once the pigs stopped running from whatever pile they were eating from to whichever pile they saw their sibling eating from - it was like musical chairs :D).
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OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.
Thanks
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We didn't buy them - they were born here! We have sold their female siblings and been left with the boys.
We haven't wormed them no. That is something I was going to do, and is actually how I found this forum looking for the best way. Pretty sure they don't have them though. Have had a friend over that keeps loads of pigs and he's pretty sure too. In fact he said there's nothing wrong with their size for their age - think I'm comparing unfavourably with our last litter which was very small and so spoiled rotten - the weaners were already 21kg when leaving their mother at 8-9 weeks!!!
I use Verm - X to prevent the worms and since no pigs have been kept here before and none have had worms then theoretically there can't be any here for them to pick up!
Rosemary I am totally with you - that is how I've always fed them too and am glad someone agrees! We used to make three piles too for our three females and the same thing happened where eventually they settled on a pile each!
For the boys I have been putting a large pile on the ground and they have just gathered in a circle around it - and like you say they are very thorough at finding and eating it all (when it's rolls) - I did notice the pellets getting trodden in though.
I got a six foot trough so there are six spaces so am using a small hook on one as well - but it means one little fella has to realise he has no space and work out what to do about it! Bless :(
Am still using the rolls for the girls - they get it in their straw in their shed - but when it gets really warm and dry in their outdoor bit I'll be back to putting it outdoors for them too.
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no further comment ;D
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Feed on a piece of plywood or in a trough if possible. It definately prevents wastage.
Regards Patrick
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If the pigs are inside by the time i've got the food to the trough most of it is on the floor from them barging around trying to get at it, and there is never any waste!
If outside, i use a trough, and then scatter some fruit and veg around to keep them occupied :)
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when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area",
Duh.
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Thanks for the valued comment Eve, I was replying to :
we scatter little piles of feed all over the pen
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However, I have an offer here if anyone wants to take it on-board and test out their pig husbandry
I will supply two free worm count kits to two people (the first two to pm me with their address details) - This will not cost you a penny, However, if you take on this offer then you must give permission for your worm count results when they are received from the Lab to be published here on the forum - good or bad.
Any Takers?
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Ok
One taker so far, - lillian waddell
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Hmmmm
Apart from lillian everyone seems to have gone very quiet now........
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OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.
Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts. The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.
All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days. You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs. Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way. Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area. Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.
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Blondie,
That is absolute rubbish ! And obviously you understand nothing about the life cycle of worms - please read all the pages of this link : http://www.thepigsite.com/pighealth/article/407/internal-parasites (http://www.thepigsite.com/pighealth/article/407/internal-parasites)
Many Thanks
Got the second taker - Leri, the kits will be in the post today.
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I understand that the pigs pick the worms back up again after they've been passed out. I also understand that they can live in the ground and would be picked up again by new pigs.
What I don't understand is how you think my pigs can pick up worms from ground that pigs have NEVER been kept on before - none of the pigs that are being kept there now are showing signs of having worms - all I've used is Verm X.
I'm happy to treat with a broad spectrum prophylactically but am a bit reluctant to make the pigs resistant to wormers as well.
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Hi Leri,
Not stating that they have worms or that you should worm.
However, most livestock has a certain amount of worms, a count of <100 is classed as low level and does not require treatment, as the count increases (possibly by re-ingesting eggs passed in dung or by "infected" earthworms) then the need to worm with a chemical based wormer increases.
Verm X is a good product, but acts mainly as a method of clearing the animals gut of worms by them passing out in droppings. However, if the pig (or other animal) is in constant contact with those droppings then the re-ingestion risk is higher.
The only sure way to know is by a worm egg count (will post today), then worming, if necessary, using a suitable wormer and ensuring you have a good system in place for rotating pens / paddocks - as you can see from the link I posted some species of worms can lay dormant in the soil for a considerable period.
You said earlier that the pigs were bred by you - but you must have got your original stock somewhere so even though your ground may never have housed pigs, you may or may not have brought them in with the stock.
Thanks
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Yes I realise that. We started with two female weaners indoors. And have always used the Verm X regularly every month. Not realising it was more of a preventative than a treatment. Have never seen worms - they were kept indoors and mucked out initially. And yes we then bought in a boar and then another gilt. They've never shown any signs of not growing etc, but still I will be interested to know. It is all a learning curve still. Only been at it since October 2009 so not two years yet. Doubt I'll stop learning even when it's been 20 though!
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Hi Leri,
The worm count kit went first class today - and so did yours Lillian, Just fill the pots with poo samples, fill in the sheet and pop both in the pre-paid envelope in a mailbox.
Thanks
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so that will be us posting crap now ?????
LERI the day you stop learning is the the day you give up
we will just wait to see the results then we will add to this post with an interesting observation???
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Yes - will be good to know. x
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I feed pellets in a trough once a day, toss in any fruits or veggies we might have and a little grain. My elderly father lives next door visits the pigs, goats, chickens and geese every day and gives them bread. I know, not the best but I can't seem to get it through his head that they shouldn't eat all that junk. My runts are hand raise so they get a slop of goats milk and softened sow pellets that gets thicker as I wean them off the milk. Until I sell the piglets for show or market I keep food available at all times. My friends with the pig farm grind their own blend of feed, they have troughs but also grind feed to a powder spread it across the cement floors in the barn, their pigs spend hours licking the powder off the floor, keeps them entertained. They also mix in Diatomaceous Earth so they don't have problems with worms & such. The only pigs I have seen or heard of that eating their own feces were piglets. I have heard of adult pigs that are not being fed properly will eat each others poo but I have not witnessed our pigs doing so, the chickens on the other hand love to recycle pig poo.
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OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.
Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts. The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.
All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days. You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs. Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way. Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area. Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.
If pigs are wormed which is what I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung area If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap. Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading. In nature pigs go through their dung pile...worms or no worms.
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OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.
Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts. The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.
All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days. You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs. Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way. Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area. Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.
If pigs are wormed which is what I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung area If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap. Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading. In nature pigs go through their dung pile...worms or no worms.
Dung that is infected is only benefical to building up the immunity of Gilts. Healthy sow dung has very little benefit and it would be better to use weaner dung or piglets scour to trigger the production of antibodies against onfarm problems inconjunction to a vaccination programm ie Porcol 5, Gletvax 6, etc.
I supposed Blonde, if it gives you peace of mind and not so many sleepless nights, then it is probably better for your health rather than there's.
And how often do you worm/inject ,with Ivermectin, your sows to stop them getting reinfested with worms????
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OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.
Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts. The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.
All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days. You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs. Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way. Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area. Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.
If pigs are wormed which is what I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung area If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap. Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading. In nature pigs go through their dung pile...worms or no worms.
Dung that is infected is only benefical to building up the immunity of Gilts. Healthy sow dung has very little benefit and it would be better to use weaner dung or piglets scour to trigger the production of antibodies against onfarm problems inconjunction to a vaccination programm ie Porcol 5, Gletvax 6, etc.
I supposed Blonde, if it gives you peace of mind and not so many sleepless nights, then it is probably better for your health rather than there's.
And how often do you worm/inject ,with Ivermectin, your sows to stop them getting reinfested with worms????
Exactly what the vet has just told me to do in the last week Stevie, and feed back is one of them from my old girls......not weaners and not scoury piglets because I dont have any scoury piglets. I use ivermectin once in a year and then wormtec. Dont want to get them used ot the wormer and not have the effect of kiling worms. Just done the old girls/gilts and the baors (as suggested by all the vets and the attendtion that we have been getting) while the vaccination program for PLE was going on. Also feed back goes on when we kekep gilts back for breeding. Great idea, builds up her immunity to any bugs that the old girls might have. dont care that people think it is gross, no different to a cow chewing its cud, they regugitate out of the stomach and the pigs do they same but pick it up off the ground, nose thorugh it etc. I leave the rest to your immagination.
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OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.
Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts. The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.
All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days. You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs. Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way. Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area. Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.
If pigs are wormed which is what I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung area If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap. Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading. In nature pigs go through their dung pile...worms or no worms.
Dung that is infected is only benefical to building up the immunity of Gilts. Healthy sow dung has very little benefit and it would be better to use weaner dung or piglets scour to trigger the production of antibodies against onfarm problems inconjunction to a vaccination programm ie Porcol 5, Gletvax 6, etc.
I supposed Blonde, if it gives you peace of mind and not so many sleepless nights, then it is probably better for your health rather than there's.
And how often do you worm/inject ,with Ivermectin, your sows to stop them getting reinfested with worms????
Exactly what the vet has just told me to do in the last week Stevie, and feed back is one of them from my old girls......not weaners and not scoury piglets because I dont have any scoury piglets. I use ivermectin once in a year and then wormtec. Dont want to get them used ot the wormer and not have the effect of kiling worms. Just done the old girls/gilts and the baors (as suggested by all the vets and the attendtion that we have been getting) while the vaccination program for PLE was going on. Also feed back goes on when we kekep gilts back for breeding. Great idea, builds up her immunity to any bugs that the old girls might have. dont care that people think it is gross, no different to a cow chewing its cud, they regugitate out of the stomach and the pigs do they same but pick it up off the ground, nose thorugh it etc. I leave the rest to your immagination.
Chewing the cud has nothing to do with them building up of immunity, but it helps the cow to digest its grass more effectively, so i don't see the connection and they don't spit it out on the ground. I understand the principle of feed back and have done it many times before to gilts, but if there is no disease present in the dung there is no guarantee that it will achieve anything. I've feed afterbirth, died piglets, stillborns back to gilts as a means of building up gilt immunity, but that holds higher risks(so only practice it when necessary), as it can make the situation worse instead of better in some cases, so good judgement(and good advice) is necessary. Its just that feedback is too miss rather than hit.
As to getting a resistance to wormer, just periodically use a dfferent one, then that won't happen. Applies to drugs as well.
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can someone tell me exactly what "feed back" is?
also what is "Diatomaceous earth?"
iv never seen my pigs eat theIR dung, tho my gsd will eat both hers and theirs! ;D
mine are fed in a concrete courtyard. the chickens will finish off any crumbs but cant steal the rolls.
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Never seen my pigs eating their dung either.
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also what is "Diatomaceous earth?"
Diatocaeous earth is big over here, and super expensive. Its used by the bio people to worm their animals.
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Stevie G
i don't uunderstand how encouraging cannibalism can help the health of any herd. To me that practice puts the health of your herd and that of those around you at risk of disease, not preventing them from occuring.It is definately not something i would advocate, perhaps others will disagree, but i would never do such a thing[i also think it would be frowned upon to say the least by the powers at be] Perhaps you have sound scientific evidence for this practice if you do could you please share it [although i doubt it would change my mind].
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Chewing the cud has nothing to do with them building up of immunity, but it helps the cow to digest its grass more effectively, so i don't see the connection and they don't spit it out on the ground. I understand the principle of feed back and have done it many times before to gilts, but if there is no disease present in the dung there is no guarantee that it will achieve anything. I've feed afterbirth, died piglets, stillborns back to gilts as a means of building up gilt immunity, but that holds higher risks(so only practice it when necessary), as it can make the situation worse instead of better in some cases, so good judgement(and good advice) is necessary. Its just that feedback is too miss rather than hit.
As to getting a resistance to wormer, just periodically use a dfferent one, then that won't happen. Applies to drugs as well.
i really hope your not in the uk. animal health would have a fit if they found you feeding dead stock to your pigs. how can you justify that practice. also its just plain wrong.
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The practice of feeding dead piglets to pigs would be considered illegal in the UK where strict guidelines on the disposal of dead stock are proscribed. Further, the practice is dangerous as it can give the gilt a taste for piglets leading to her killing and eating her litter. The feeding of afterbirth can have a similar outcome.
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so that will be us posting crap now ?????
;D ;D ;D Slightly off topic, but I had taken some poo samples from the ponies, properly wrapped, to the Post Office. My chum's eight year old son came with me. As I handed over the package to the nice lady, S informed the crowded Post Office " there's poo in there you know". Open ground and let me sink into it ;D
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i can understand why placentas get eaten (saw it on tv once) as they are so high in iron, whats the thinking behind eating stillborns?
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The term "feed-back" refers to the feed back of dung/stilborns/piglets(weaner/sow or piglet scour) to gilts inorder to stimulate the gilts immune system in producing antibodies against a particular disease ie Ecoli scour.
This, I think, can still be done in the UK with the authority of a Vet, but caution should be shown when doing this as it can in some cases make the situation worse, rather than better ie with Swine Dysentry, Foot and Mouth, etc.
The last time I feed liquidised piglets back to gilts/sows was in 1994, when our farm had an outbreak of Abbottstown scour. This is the only time I have feed piglets back to gilts and sows. There after all we used to do was to throw piglet/weaner scour on the floor of the gilt pens to aid in build- up of their immunity to farm diseases.
The vaccination(with Porcol 5, Erysorb, Parvovac, etc.) of gilts it what I have mainly carried out over the years. I have very rarely relied on feed-back alone.
Feeding liquidised piglets back to gilts/sows does NOT cause cannibalism.
Feed-back does work, but only if the disease is present in what you are throwing back, otherwise it is a waste of time.
Vaccination, in conjunction with feed-back, is always the best way to go.
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i don't see how it can be legal. i honestly don't see our vet suggesting that we feed a dead piglet to a sow. are you in the uk and have you read defras rules. i think delibertly exposing your pigs to an unknown virus/bacteria is chancy to say the least. it may help with there immunity but its a little old fashioned.
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The practice of feeding dead piglets to pigs would be considered illegal in the UK where strict guidelines on the disposal of dead stock are proscribed. Further, the practice is dangerous as it can give the gilt a taste for piglets leading to her killing and eating her litter. The feeding of afterbirth can have a similar outcome.
y Hypothetically....... So if your pig farrrows during the night and she has say 3 dead pigs on the way through... you dont see them in the morning..... where have they gone, they did not get up and walk away, therefore she must have consumed them along with the afterbirth. It is wrong to say they dont eat the own dead piglets and it is also wrong to say they dont eat their afterbirth unless they farrow in a crate and cannot turn around to have access to it and it is left ther for the worker to remove in the morning.
There is no harm in feeding afterbirth back to gilts to help them get over or arond the herd diseases. I have spoken to a vet who has recommended the idea of a feed back program along with a vaccination program. I dont feed piglets liquidised either, but after birth yes and dung yes.
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Hi,
I bowed out of this thread some time ago, but have been following it with interest.
Just a plea from me to any new pig keepers in the UK - Please do not consider feeding piglets and or dung / scour to your pigs, there is no need, and it is a highly dubious practice.
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I'm not a pig keeper, but gosh this seems so wrong, i can get my head round an animal cleaning up after the birth, but liquidising its just ssssoooo wrong ??? :o :o
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there is a diffrence from the pig cleaning the after birth and any dead up. and the farmer infecting them with possibly dangerous germs. ive never seen my pigs eating the poo. i don't see why they would but hey im no expert. but defra would jump on this practice your feeding an animal food source to them.
why are your pigs becoming so vunerable to farm yard bugs.
just think were not allowed to give them stale bread if its been in the kitchen just in cases its been in contact with animal products.
just googled the subject
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Kqw2gCZFfhoC&pg=PT1103&lpg=PT1103&dq=feeding+piglets+intestines+to+sows&source=bl&ots=AX2Zv-GjGL&sig=cMbSvvxm-gz9NQPeG7ktCQPXrxY&hl=en&ei=5Ep2TfSGIMexhQfHifWFBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=feeding%20piglets%20intestines%20to%20sows&f=false (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Kqw2gCZFfhoC&pg=PT1103&lpg=PT1103&dq=feeding+piglets+intestines+to+sows&source=bl&ots=AX2Zv-GjGL&sig=cMbSvvxm-gz9NQPeG7ktCQPXrxY&hl=en&ei=5Ep2TfSGIMexhQfHifWFBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=feeding%20piglets%20intestines%20to%20sows&f=false)
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We don't have a trough, but what we do is give a section of fresh hay the length of the pen and scatter the food on this so they root more. Not sure if this is right or wrong as we're new to it all lol going to get/make a trough for winter tho.
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When I die, please please don't let me come back as a pig.
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When I die, please please don't let me come back as a pig.
dWhy not...a pig is very resourseful when if comes to finding food and if it means going through their dung well so be it.
On a lighter note, every herd has its own bugs...regardless of what any of you might think. If you are going to mix two mobs then you have to feed back the dung the of the older sows an give it to the younger sows to allow them to build up any immunity to what ever the sows may be carrying in their system....and that is on Vets advice.......This subjects has been thrashed around well and truly.......
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Hi,
I bowed out of this thread some time ago, but have been following it with interest.
Just a plea from me to any new pig keepers in the UK - Please do not consider feeding piglets and or dung / scour to your pigs, there is no need, and it is a highly dubious practice.
I would just like to make this point that, and I am glad that I am not necessarily the one being picked on,
is that the term feedback means that you are not actually getting the gilt to eat piglets dung, just getting her to rumage about in it, hence being EXPOSED to it.
This practice I personally have not done for sometime(the feeding back of piglets was in 1994 in which time the law has changed, especially as Foot and Mouth and Mad Cows, disease, etc., have gone and come.) and mainly do vaccination(when I am working with pigs).
Feedback in certain cases is not always a good idea as it can worsen the problem ie with Swine Dysentry, Swine fever, Food and mouth, etc., rather than make it better.
Feedback, if used, should not be done without consultation of a Vet(of which Blonde has done). Iam surprised that Blonde is feeding back afterbirth, Stills, etc., as I thought that had gone out the window a very long time ago!!!
Times, surely Blonde, have moved on! :o
As to "there is never a need" that is just foolish talk.
Most people would have no need to do it, but there are occassions when it is warranted.
Blondes an Ozzie living in Australia(pig farm ownwer) and iam English, living in Australia(moved here 5 years ago).
Me and Blonde don't always agree on things and so is life and that makes things rather more interesting, hey Blonde!! :wave:
Another interesting thing is that Blondes Vet is English(snigger,snigger), but I won't mention his name!
Well respected I may add. :-*
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Hi,
I bowed out of this thread some time ago, but have been following it with interest.
Just a plea from me to any new pig keepers in the UK - Please do not consider feeding piglets and or dung / scour to your pigs, there is no need, and it is a highly dubious practice.
I would just like to make this point that, and I am glad that I am not necessarily the one being picked on,
is that the term feedback means that you are not actually getting the gilt to eat piglets dung, just getting her to rumage about in it, hence being EXPOSED to it.
This practice I personally have not done for sometime(the feeding back of piglets was in 1994 in which time the law has changed, especially as Foot and Mouth and Mad Cows, disease, etc., have gone and come.) and mainly do vaccination(when I am working with pigs).
Feedback in certain cases is not always a good idea as it can worsen the problem ie with Swine Dysentry, Swine fever, Food and mouth, etc., rather than make it better.
Feedback, if used, should not be done without consultation of a Vet(of which Blonde has done). Iam surprised that Blonde is feeding back afterbirth, Stills, etc., as I thought that had gone out the window a very long time ago!!!
Times, surely Blonde, have moved on! :o
As to "there is never a need" that is just foolish talk.
Most people would have no need to do it, but there are occassions when it is warranted.
Blondes an Ozzie living in Australia(pig farm ownwer) and iam English, living in Australia(moved here 5 years ago).
Me and Blonde don't always agree on things and so is life and that makes things rather more interesting, hey Blonde!! :wave:
Another interesting thing is that Blondes Vet is English(snigger,snigger), but I won't mention his name!
Well respected I may add. :-*
He is the only vet I reckon worth having on Farm.....So knowledgable across the board when I comes to pigs. Yes....... he has been to the farm just recently and suggested feed back to the gilts only...to allow them to catch up on the sows bugs and give immunity. He has also suggested a vaccination program to fit in with the pigs....as we have had a few problems here in the last few months. but looks like we have come out the other end not too worse off, but with 6 months lost production. It is good when you can email a good vet you know and bounce things off him at random and get a good answer back...... I feel very priveledge that I can do that. sorry Stevie, but I guess I am just spoilt for choice.
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Hmmmm
Think I'll be checking labels in future for pork produced in Australia
But if its accepted over there then so be it.
On another note - the wife isn't looking too well this morning and I have just read up the symptoms in our copy of the medievel edition of how to cure everything with leeches and bleeding (dated 1377) - Great, found out how to cure her - she just has to eat one of the kids......hmmm which one should we choose ?? ;D
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This is the very reason we have our own meat, I know what they are fed and how they are kept. :pig: :sheep: :&> :chook:
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how old is this vet. anyway its not in the uk so its up to them and there animal health folks. im surprised at the aussies being that relaxed. after all they would hang us for bringing in a bacon butty.
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Have they ever had f&m in Oz? If not might be the reason for the relaxed approach and the banning of importing bacon sandwiches ;D
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very interesting the different ways or pig rearing AROUND THE WORLD take for instance some Asian country's if you stay in a hottel BE VERY WARY OFORDERING PORK they have there own pigs fed on humane excrement from the toilets along with other fedding
the majority may be baulking at this but that is what pigs do in the wild (any source of protein)
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Our industry is very strict when it comes to what you can feed. Grain is the most important part of a pigs diet and the only part of a pigs diet. We are allowed to fed meat meal but I have grown pigs now for 2 years or so with out that as part of their diet. Feed back is only for the gilts and it does not of course consist of after birth as I dont see it when the sows have had their litter. Most of them farrow at night and have cleaned the area up before I get down to th piggery. I also dont mince piglets I think that is quite disgusting. I dont agree with Stevie on that one at all. I just bury them in the hole down the back of the farm. When it is time to clean out the farrowing area a bucket (tractor bucket)of manure has to go down to the gilt pen for them to nose thorugh..... nothing absolutey wrong with that. Any grain that is still in the manure will be consumed of course but a pig will do that any way no matter where it lives, especially if they are grown outside. There is nothing wrong with the meat that we produce here in Oz. But to do this it is a good idea to consult a vet..... which I have done just recently.
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Have they ever had f&m in Oz? If not might be the reason for the relaxed approach and the banning of importing bacon sandwiches ;D
You have to bring it in to infect a pig herd from F&M. It can't be done by taking piglets dung and throwing it on to the pen floor and letting Gilts put there snouts through it, unless its already on farm. You obviously have no understanding of its transmission.
Feedback is the same principle as someone coughing over you and giving you the flu, thats simply all it is. Which is why I keep saying it all depends on what it is as if it was Swine flu I would not want that person to cough on me!
As to feeding your kids to the wife, you would have to Murder them first, so its hardly like for like.
And I certainly wouldn't eat off the plate in some countries for fear of what I may catch!!!
Vaccination is my choice of giving immunity to gilts, but the other is an option also.
As to feeding back piglets. It is not an option that I have used in a long time, infact only once, so whats the deal. ::)
Things have moved on S&S from the mediaeval days.
What I was really trying to point out to Blonde was that the concept of feedback is mediaeval and is not something that she or anyone else has just suddenly invented, but has been here since Mediaeval times! Nothing more, nothing less.
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excellent we all agree minced stillborn piglets is a bad idea. end of aguement. would exposing your gilts to an unknown bug in the piglets poo not be risky until you have had it micobiology tested. and if the piglets have not been sick then whats the point. are the pigs on soil or concrete. if soil they should have been exposed to loads of bugs.
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thanks stevie-g - that actually does make some sort of sense, bit like injecting a live vaccine. i didnt realise it was done. i presume u are on a large scale pig unit?
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thanks stevie-g - that actually does make some sort of sense, bit like injecting a live vaccine. i didnt realise it was done. i presume u are on a large scale pig unit?
NO....... he drives a truck up and down the east coast of Eastern Australia. but yes he has pig experience in early days.
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excellent we all agree minced stillborn piglets is a bad idea. end of aguement. would exposing your gilts to an unknown bug in the piglets poo not be risky until you have had it micobiology tested. and if the piglets have not been sick then whats the point. are the pigs on soil or concrete. if soil they should have been exposed to loads of bugs.
They are on soil and that is quite normal, but one load of manure from the farrowing are is also a good idea to put in the gilt pen.
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excellent we all agree minced stillborn piglets is a bad idea. end of aguement. would exposing your gilts to an unknown bug in the piglets poo not be risky until you have had it micobiology tested. and if the piglets have not been sick then whats the point. are the pigs on soil or concrete. if soil they should have been exposed to loads of bugs.
;DFinally someone has an understanding of the whole principle of "feedback". Oh I am as happy :wave:
That is why it is important to establish what the bug is by consultation with a Vet. Once you have established which disease this is you can assess whether feedback can be used or not.
The only reason feedback is mainly used, if ATALL, is to build up the immunity against Ecoli scours(and maybe 1 or 2 other scours) in piglets. So you exposed your gilts to the problem to trigger off their immunity. That is solely what you are doing.
A very cheap form of vaccination as you pay nothing for it, and it exposes the gilts to bugs that are relevant to your farm.
May I add that these gilts are NOT inpig, so it cause them no ill effect. In the same way most vaccinations on are carried out approx. 6 weeks before mating.
There are approx. 22 types of Ecoli scour and a vaccine only covers 6 types(?) so feedback can be more effective.
As to the feeding of stilborns and mummies that is very rarely a good idea and can at times do more harm than good.
This I have never practiced.
As to feeding back pigelts that have died from scour, I have only ever done that once, back in 1994 against Ecoli scour(Abbottstown) to the sows and gilts. It was done only for a short period of time, say a month, and it proved very effective as the problem went. No more sick piglets.
It is always only a short term method to solve a long term problem.
In 1994 there may not have been a vaccine to this problem anyway which is why we did what we did at the time.
Alot has changed since then and there may well now be a vaccine now available.
And as Blonde has mention, when farrowing outdoors sows will eat there own afterbirth and any died piglets as this is what they would do in the wild anyway(to prevent preditors from finding her live piglets) and it causes them no ill effects.
This they have been doing long before the medieval days and it has never encouraged them to commit cannibalis.
And the reason I dragged the subject of feedback up was also that if your pigs are in full heath, then feedback is a wate of time, but her argument is that you may aswell do it anyway.
I suppose that is her choice.
As to what I now do, yes I drive trucks. Spent 3 years over here running an outdoor unit, then an indoor unit, didn't like either locations, so we move from west to east.
A shame for me as I have been pig farming for over 25 years.(still keep my hand in by doing this) ;D
I still keep looking, so lets hope one day I find what I want! :wave:
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You have to bring it in to infect a pig herd from F&M. It can't be done by taking piglets dung and throwing it on to the pen floor and letting Gilts put there snouts through it, unless its already on farm. You obviously have no understanding of its transmission.
Stevie G I asked if f&m had ever occurred in Oz.
My comment about bacon sandwiches was tongue in cheek to Shetland Paul. Thanks for the info.
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steve g.
nothing wrong being a trucker. you make your living the best you can. i am guessing that its the same over there unless you have a very big herd your not going to make a good living. bythe way whats your rules on feeding stuff to the pigs and whats the cost of feed.
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steve g.
nothing wrong being a trucker. you make your living the best you can. i am guessing that its the same over there unless you have a very big herd your not going to make a good living. bythe way whats your rules on feeding stuff to the pigs and whats the cost of feed.
310 aus dollars for lupins / ton, 280 for barley per ton, 240 per ton, wheat
No meat or offal to be fed.....just grain
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thats about £30 cheaper than we can get it. how do you make money on your two year old sausage pigs. we went into the red at 9 months. how do you stop them putting on tons of fat.
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I always use sow rolls for weaning. At 1 week old I introduce them to a sow roll porridge and then gradually work up to full sow rolls at 3-4 weeks and try to get them fully weaned by 6 weeks.
I always use a trough, which are cleaned regularly and the only time I feed on the ground is when I scatter vegetables.
I know that they like to rootle in the mud but it just seems fairer to give them clean food.
The hard part is keeping the troughs clean during the winter but I try to ensure they kept reasonably clean where possible, even if it's just a scrape out before feeding time.
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thats about £30 cheaper than we can get it. how do you make money on your two year old sausage pigs. we went into the red at 9 months. how do you stop them putting on tons of fat.
I buy seconds grain from the seed works, and dont add anything to it, I also runthem on pastue and feed them hay. I dont do any thing much till it is nearly time for them to go. I give them a liitle bit of feed and they grow well, if you over feed you then have fat pigs. As they mature they only 2kg per day....same as the sows
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and there was me thinking i was doing great with the Hampshire's putting on 1kilo per day(and the college surprised that i was achieving this growth level with outdoor pigs in Scotland) just shows you what a bit of heat can do?? :wave:
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You have to bring it in to infect a pig herd from F&M. It can't be done by taking piglets dung and throwing it on to the pen floor and letting Gilts put there snouts through it, unless its already on farm. You obviously have no understanding of its transmission.
Stevie G I asked if f&m had ever occurred in Oz.
My comment about bacon sandwiches was tongue in cheek to Shetland Paul. Thanks for the info.
Too much to read and not enough hours thats half the problem.
Work more hours now I am not doing pigs. Up at 4:45 am and in bed by 11:00.
Thankfully only 5 days a week and not 7!
As far as I know with the Foot and Mouth, not as far as I know!!!!
The laws are very strict over here(not strict enough to keep me out though), which is in a way is a blessing. ;D
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No meat or offal to be fed.....just grain
[/quote]
so how could u feed stillborns etc? or have laws changed since?
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No meat or offal to be fed.....just grain
so how could u feed stillborns etc? or have laws changed since?
[/quote]I have never fed dead piglets to my girls in all of the 17 years I have been in pigs. Feed back is a very new idea in this piggery and was suggested by the vet and the vet only. Yes I do a little ...but a bit sceptical about the idea.
Sows that have farrow consume their own after birth and that is a very natural thing for them to do.
As for feeding meat to sows, boars etc... You can not run animals and put the dead ones in the pen ie. sheep as was done long ago.....and you can not go roo shooting and put the waste in the pig yards either. And in to the bargain swill feeding is also banned, so nothing out of the kitchen is to go into the pig yards. Swill is a hugely fineable offence here in Oz.
Bones in a sows stomach on slaughter means trouble with the authorities. Better not to do it and just feed grain. You can feed meat meal, blood meal and fish meal that has been through high temperatures.
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I have three sows and they've all just farrowed the once so far. I was with the first two, the third one farrowed on her own in the early hours of the morning. The middle one had thirteen live piglets and showed no interest whatsoever in eating the afterbirth. We forked it out of there once she was settled with them anyway.
The first one had two stillborn piglets - she never showed any interest at all in eating them or the afterbirth.
The third one - saddleback farrowed in early hours of the morning - in the morning she had two live piglets suckling at her. I keep square buckets on their sides along the edges of the farrowing sheds so piglets have an escape and there is a buffer between mum and the wall. Later on in the day after she gave birth she'd rooted them out the way so I put them back(something I have to do frequently! but worth it if it saves a squished piggy) - underneath where I was about to put the bucket back I noticed a stillborn piglet still in the thick bag - buried under the straw. Seems her instinct was to bury it not eat it. She didn't eat the afterbirth either.
I feel if it is their instinct to do it and do it of their own accord - then fair enough, but as stated earlier liquidising it and adding it to feed just sound disgusting and very wrong.
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I have three sows and they've all just farrowed the once so far. I was with the first two, the third one farrowed on her own in the early hours of the morning. The middle one had thirteen live piglets and showed no interest whatsoever in eating the afterbirth. We forked it out of there once she was settled with them anyway.
The first one had two stillborn piglets - she never showed any interest at all in eating them or the afterbirth.
The third one - saddleback farrowed in early hours of the morning - in the morning she had two live piglets suckling at her. I keep square buckets on their sides along the edges of the farrowing sheds so piglets have an escape and there is a buffer between mum and the wall. Later on in the day after she gave birth she'd rooted them out the way so I put them back(something I have to do frequently! but worth it if it saves a squished piggy) - underneath where I was about to put the bucket back I noticed a stillborn piglet still in the thick bag - buried under the straw. Seems her instinct was to bury it not eat it. She didn't eat the afterbirth either.
I feel if it is their instinct to do it and do it of their own accord - then fair enough, but as stated earlier liquidising it and adding it to feed just sound disgusting and very wrong.
I had twos sows farrow today, one consumed the afterbirth and the other did not. One had 3 still bornes and they were still there, some do it and some dont. That is the way it is. But I dont collect them and liquidise them and feed them back to the gilts...growsssssssss they go down to the hole down the paddock and are buried. But the after birth is generally consumed but occaisionally not by all.
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I have three sows and they've all just farrowed the once so far. I was with the first two, the third one farrowed on her own in the early hours of the morning. The middle one had thirteen live piglets and showed no interest whatsoever in eating the afterbirth. We forked it out of there once she was settled with them anyway.
The first one had two stillborn piglets - she never showed any interest at all in eating them or the afterbirth.
The third one - saddleback farrowed in early hours of the morning - in the morning she had two live piglets suckling at her. I keep square buckets on their sides along the edges of the farrowing sheds so piglets have an escape and there is a buffer between mum and the wall. Later on in the day after she gave birth she'd rooted them out the way so I put them back(something I have to do frequently! but worth it if it saves a squished piggy) - underneath where I was about to put the bucket back I noticed a stillborn piglet still in the thick bag - buried under the straw. Seems her instinct was to bury it not eat it. She didn't eat the afterbirth either.
I feel if it is their instinct to do it and do it of their own accord - then fair enough, but as stated earlier liquidising it and adding it to feed just sound disgusting and very wrong.
Any feedback thats done is done through the PERMISSION OF A VET.
It is only a short term measure and should NOT be done with every disease problem as the situation will be made worse rather than better.
This practice is not an every day occurence, and is infact only ever done once in a bluemoon.
You can think what you like, but what it really shows is your ignorance of what feedback is all about, building up the immunity of your pigs without having to use drugs or any other chemicals in their diet.
Surely that has to be far better.
And so it goes on and on and on. ;D ;D
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bluemoon i heard you were in Australia not Kentucky :wave:
ignorance of what feedback is it is ignorance to the regulations of keeping pigs in Europe :wave:
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bluemoon i heard you were in Australia not Kentucky :wave:
ignorance of what feedback is it is ignorance to the regulations of keeping pigs in Europe :wave:
Pigs consume their after birth even in the bush/wild so that predators dont hang around and take the babies. They do not leave it to lay on the ground and move their piglets, it is the other way around.
Feed back is just generally a once off idea suggestd by the vets to build immunity in the gilts kept back for breeding.
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I AM WELL AWARE THAT SOME PIGS EAT THERE AFTERBIRTH AS DO CATTLE ;) ;)
we are in Europe not the bush(could do with a bush) and do things not to offend the masses or break the laws it is as simple as that :wave:
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why is this still going on. steve g. explain what he did. he has clearly said he does not do it with dead stock. he exposes thyem to poo. which was under his vets instructions.
he is in a diffrent country so has diffrent rules and diffrent bugs to watch out for. if his pigs are healthy and the vets happy then what more can he do.
yes the concept seems strange but a lot of stuff in livestock still seems strange to me.
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Hi,
My only concern now with this thread is that initially it was not stated that this was Non-UK, so somebody reading the posts may have thought that this was accepted practice in UK / Europe.
Thanks
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bluemoon i heard you were in Australia not Kentucky :wave:
ignorance of what feedback is it is ignorance to the regulations of keeping pigs in Europe :wave:
The only one who's close to "blue" is you and thats mainly to do with the weather(ho,ho).
The concept of feedback has been around for years and the last time I feed piglets back to sows was in 1994 and since then a hell of alot has happened and changed with the rules and regulations ie Foot and Mouth, Swine Flu, Mad Cow and so on.
And as to feeding poo back to gilts, that is just to expose them to bugs and trigger thier immune system and is not so they eat it.
Vaccines have also advanced massively ie only one shot is need and a larger range is now available.
Since 1994 I've ONLY vaccinated with Erysorb, Gletvac 6(for outdoors), Stella Immune once, Parvac and Porcol 5.
And since when has a stillborn ever "fallen". Perhaps if the sow was standing up during farrowing maybe???
And yes, after 25 years of pig farming in the UK I moved to Australia, where maybe the same rules don't apply, but are not relevant any way as i have never done feedback over here any way!
A mountain out of pigs poo me thinks.(snigger,snigger) ::)
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what started out as a simple request as to how pig keepers feed there pigs in the BRITTISH WINTER has evolved into worm counts having been done with some surprises :o then carried on to what is practised in Australia AT PRESENT and what Stevie G HAS DONE in the past 17 years ago. a lot has changed in EUOROPE in that time so is irrelevant today thankfully if that was practised
now STILLBORN is classified as fallen stock again in Europe we can not just dig a hole and bury it ,them or what quantity there is at hand they have to go off farm either collected or taken to the knackerman
the exception to this is if you have an on farm incinerator that is licenced by animal health and in Scotland SEPA(england is the environment agency)
and finally i would not like to meet a 59 year old lorry driver hurtling towards me that has just had 6 hours sleep you will find that European H G V laws has moved on since you were last here as well
take care :wave: :wave: :wave:
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what started out as a simple request as to how pig keepers feed there pigs in the BRITTISH WINTER has evolved into worm counts having been done with some surprises :o then carried on to what is practised in Australia AT PRESENT and what Stevie G HAS DONE in the past 17 years ago. a lot has changed in EUOROPE in that time so is irrelevant today thankfully if that was practised
now STILLBORN is classified as fallen stock again in Europe we can not just dig a hole and bury it ,them or what quantity there is at hand they have to go off farm either collected or taken to the knackerman
the exception to this is if you have an on farm incinerator that is licenced by animal health and in Scotland SEPA(england is the environment agency)
and finally i would not like to meet a 59 year old lorry driver hurtling towards me that has just had 6 hours sleep you will find that European H G V laws has moved on since you were last here as well
take care :wave: :wave: :wave:
And the likes of you have made it a darn sight more difficult than it needed to have been, with an over reaction.
I've read through the welfare legilation available and can not see where it mentions a stilborn as fallen stock. I would like to see it.
Haven't done feedback for years so its irrelevant anyway.
Truck driving laws are the same as in the UK, you can not drive more than 5 years without a break and you can not drive more than 12 hours.
Don't drive long distance anyway and am not 59 so more irrelevant rubbish.(so more Baloney)
The laws over here are slightly different, but not as major as you seem to try to make out, after all what knackerman would be sent out all the way to pick a dead pig up from Alice Springs!
Please do get real!!!
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what started out as a simple request as to how pig keepers feed there pigs in the BRITTISH WINTER has evolved into worm counts having been done with some surprises :o then carried on to what is practised in Australia AT PRESENT and what Stevie G HAS DONE in the past 17 years ago. a lot has changed in EUOROPE in that time so is irrelevant today thankfully if that was practised
now STILLBORN is classified as fallen stock again in Europe we can not just dig a hole and bury it ,them or what quantity there is at hand they have to go off farm either collected or taken to the knackerman
the exception to this is if you have an on farm incinerator that is licenced by animal health and in Scotland SEPA(england is the environment agency)
and finally i would not like to meet a 59 year old lorry driver hurtling towards me that has just had 6 hours sleep you will find that European H G V laws has moved on since you were last here as well
take care :wave: :wave: :wave:
And the likes of you have made it a darn sight more difficult than it needed to have been, with an over reaction.
I've read through the welfare legilation available and can not see where it mentions a stilborn as fallen stock. I would like to see it.
Haven't done feedback for years so its irrelevant anyway.
Truck driving laws are the same as in the UK, you can not drive more than 5 years without a break and you can not drive more than 12 hours.
Don't drive long distance anyway and am not 59 so more irrelevant rubbish.(so more Baloney)
The laws over here are slightly different, but not as major as you seem to try to make out.
And what knackerman would be sent out all the way to pick a dead pig up from Alice Springs! There's got to be some air of common sense.
So please do get real!!! ;)
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stupid man
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For Stevie G:
Article 5 of the Animal By-Products Order 1999 (S.I.
1999 No. 646) requires that fallen stock are disposed
of by:
- despatch to a knackers yard, hunt kennel or similar
premises;
- incineration;
- rendering;
- in certain circumstances, burial in such a way that
carnivorous animals cannot gain access to the
carcass, or burning.
This provision applies to the disposal of stillborn
piglets and foetuses, as well as to older pigs.
Extracted from: http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/onfarm/documents/pigcode.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/onfarm/documents/pigcode.pdf)
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Stevie and Lillian - back to your corners ready for the next round ;)
I think SfS has settled the arguement re: fallen stock.
The consencious from the original question is people feed in whatever way suits them, providing herd health is managed efficiently this has no detrimental effect on their welfare (and worm counts ;))
I think it's high time EVERYONE remembered the point of TAS (as a long term poster I feel obliged to say something :-[)
We're here to share information and provide a bit of help and support for other likeminded folk.
We're not here to argue which way is best, or who's right because every situation will be different.
We all have different land (and in different countries with different laws), systems for keeping, level of experience, family & job commitments etc etc etc and ALL of these contribute to what's going to work best for the individual in question, no-one has a 'correct' or difinative answer in terms of how to do it, (only on what is legal/illegal in the country in question) - so can we get back to sharing information, helping people who need advice and not fighting and making everything a personal power struggle about who's the best.
And that goes for the rest of you too ;) ;D ;D ;D
Peace & love from the Happy Hippy :wave:
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stupid man
And even duller women.
Whether I am wrong or right I DO NOT and never have feed stillborns back to gilts or sows so your whole argument is flawed, and have NEVER ad vocated feeding stills back to anyone.
This law was passed back in 1999, last time I feed piglets back to sows was in 1994, so this law did not apply.
And I've certainly never advocated anyone in the UK dump carcasses in to a pit, even though it is still done in Australia.
When I was in the UK incineration was our method of disposal, and as for getting the knacker man "not on your knelly".
I will leave it at that and live in hope that this pointless argument does not continue.
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My Dear Stevie G,
you seem to have a little lapse of memory here ;D ;D your post of March 6th clearly states YOU have fed after birth, dead piglets and stillborns back to gilts
In short you have no idea what you have said and appear to live in a world that revolves around king Stevie G. Please remember everyone is entitled to their own opinions. As HH said we are all here to give advice. ;D If contents start to get personal it just becomes a slanging match. Men never can apologise when they know they are wrong ;D ;D :wave: :wave:
Hope this helps xx
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My Dear Stevie G,
you seem to have a little lapse of memory here ;D ;D your post of March 6th clearly states YOU have fed after birth, dead piglets and stillborns back to gilts
In short you have no idea what you have said and appear to live in a world that revolves around king Stevie G. Please remember everyone is entitled to their own opinions. As HH said we are all here to give advice. ;D If contents start to get personal it just becomes a slanging match. Men never can apologise when they know they are wrong ;D ;D :wave: :wave:
Hope this helps xx
And just for the record here feedback in Australia is NOT illegal(look at the Portec Australia wa site and you will see an article there on feedback), so what Blonde has rescently done is not illegal(so are you going to appoligies to her). Hmm I wonder.
And I've checked back and yes I did say it, so from that point I do stand corrected of that I can not deny.
I better leave it at that me thinks. In future it would pay to recap on what I said from the previous late night, before proceeding as that was not what I thought I said.
As I've said before vaccination and not feedbak is my first choice.
As for a slanging match I never try to follow that road.
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thank you Stevie G for your gracious apology :-* :-* :-*
there is nothing i have contributed to this thread that i should apologise for or to anybody :wave:
i will attempt to get this back on course with my next posting another bit of intrigue here :wave:
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stupid man
And even duller women.
plural...arrggh... ::)
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OK back on thread now
attached is photos of a feeding trough i made myself primarily for demonstrating pigs at the shows we attended(just to provide food in acceptable conditions) :-* :-*
it is constructed from discarded water pipe or gas pipe 300mm outside diameter cut in half to what ever lengh you want the end stops are made from 3mm plate with angle iron welded at the corners for legs
now i am not advocating you purloin the pipe the contractors (if you ask them nice) even offering sausages ,always have offcuts or will provide them the hardest part is ripping the pipe into 2 halves roofing screws attach the ends on all quite simple and easy to botch together
very robust 25mm thick and easy to clean :wave: :wave:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/johnwaddell2/DSCI0198.jpg)
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/johnwaddell2/DSCI0197.jpg)
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/johnwaddell2/DSCI0196.jpg)
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That's pretty much how we make ours too ;D
Except since I can't weld, we use heavy wood on the ends and extend it out past the pipe a bit to make it harder for them to tip over. And it doesn't matter if there are wee gaps round the edge where they meet cos it lets the rain drain out ;)
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can bruce not weld :wave: :wave:
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Yeah, he can.
But we've got this BIG supply of wood to use up so we can get in around the shed to fix it ;)
:wave:
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I use the ground for my sows and self feeders for my growers. I do have some of that piple laying around except it is black with albue stripe through it. A chain saw is a wonderful thing when it comes to cutting these pipes in half. I dont bother filling in the ends just leave them open. I do find they are rather heavy though to lift and clean out.
self feeders can be filled with the mill and tractor and tha means I can put 300 or 500 kg or even a 1000 kg out in one hit and it wil last all week depending on the number in the pen.