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Author Topic: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?  (Read 28254 times)

Leri

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Trefriw, near Llanrwst, Conwy
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2011, 11:43:07 am »
I understand that the pigs pick the worms back up again after they've been passed out. I also understand that they can live in the ground and would be picked up again by new pigs.
What I don't understand is how you think my pigs can pick up worms from ground that pigs have NEVER been kept on before - none of the pigs that are being kept there now are showing signs of having worms - all I've used is Verm X.
I'm happy to treat with a broad spectrum prophylactically but am a bit reluctant to make the pigs resistant to wormers as well.

Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2011, 12:32:53 pm »
Hi Leri,

Not stating that they have worms or that you should worm.

However, most livestock has a certain amount of worms, a count of <100 is classed as low level and does not require treatment, as the count increases (possibly by re-ingesting eggs passed in dung or by "infected" earthworms) then the need to worm with a chemical based wormer increases.

Verm X is a good product, but acts mainly as a method of clearing the animals gut of worms by them passing out in droppings. However, if the pig (or other animal) is in constant contact with those droppings then the re-ingestion risk is higher.

The only sure way to know is by a worm egg count (will post today), then worming, if necessary,  using a suitable wormer and ensuring you have a good system in place for rotating pens / paddocks - as you can see from the link I posted some species of worms can lay dormant in the soil for a considerable period.

You said earlier that the pigs were bred by you - but you must have got your original stock somewhere so even though your ground may never have housed pigs, you may or may not have brought them in with the stock.

Thanks
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Leri

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Trefriw, near Llanrwst, Conwy
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2011, 05:55:14 pm »
Yes I realise that. We started with two female weaners indoors. And have always used the Verm X regularly every month. Not realising it was more of a preventative than a treatment. Have never seen worms - they were kept indoors and mucked out initially. And yes we then bought in a boar and then another gilt. They've never shown any signs of not growing etc, but still I will be interested to know. It is all a learning curve still. Only been at it since October 2009 so not two years yet. Doubt I'll stop learning even when it's been 20 though!

Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2011, 05:58:55 pm »
Hi Leri,

The worm count kit went first class today - and so did yours Lillian, Just fill the pots with poo samples, fill in the sheet and pop both in the pre-paid envelope in a mailbox.

Thanks
www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk - Safe Secure shopping for all your livestock equipment and supplies.
Also www.suppliesforfarmers.co.uk for more larger farm related items

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2011, 06:09:29 pm »
so that will be us posting crap now ?????
LERI the day you stop learning is the the day you give up
we will just wait to see the results   then we will add to this post with an interesting observation???

Leri

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Trefriw, near Llanrwst, Conwy
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2011, 05:10:17 pm »
Yes - will be good to know. x

HammysMom

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2011, 07:53:18 pm »
I feed pellets in a trough once a day, toss in any fruits or veggies we might have and a little grain. My elderly father lives next door visits the pigs, goats, chickens and geese every day and gives them bread. I know, not the best but I can't seem to get it through his head that they shouldn't eat all that junk. My runts are hand raise so they get a slop of goats milk and softened sow pellets that gets thicker as I wean them off the milk. Until I sell the piglets for show or market I keep food available at all times. My friends with the pig farm grind their own blend of feed, they have troughs but also grind feed to a powder spread it across the cement floors in the barn, their pigs spend hours licking the powder off the floor, keeps them entertained. They also mix in Diatomaceous Earth so they don't have problems with worms & such. The only pigs I have seen or heard of that eating their own feces were piglets. I have heard of adult pigs that are not being fed properly will eat each others poo but I have not witnessed our pigs doing so, the chickens on the other hand love to recycle pig poo.

Blonde

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2011, 02:19:29 pm »
OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.

Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts.   The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they  grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.

All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days.   You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs.   Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way.   Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area.    Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.

If pigs are wormed which is what  I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung  area   If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap.  Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading.  In nature pigs go through  their dung pile...worms or no worms.

Stevie G

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2011, 11:41:48 am »
OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.

Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts.   The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they  grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.

All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days.   You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs.   Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way.   Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area.    Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.

If pigs are wormed which is what  I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung  area   If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap.  Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading.  In nature pigs go through  their dung pile...worms or no worms.

Dung that is infected is only benefical to building  up the immunity of Gilts. Healthy sow dung has very little benefit and it would be better to use weaner dung or piglets scour to trigger the production of antibodies against onfarm problems inconjunction to a vaccination programm ie Porcol 5, Gletvax 6, etc. 
I supposed Blonde, if it gives you peace of mind and not so many sleepless nights, then it is probably better for your health rather than there's. 
And how often do you worm/inject ,with Ivermectin, your sows to stop them getting reinfested with worms????      
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 11:47:43 am by Stevie G »

Blonde

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2011, 01:02:07 pm »
OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.

Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts.   The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they  grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.

All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days.   You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs.   Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way.   Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area.    Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.

If pigs are wormed which is what  I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung  area   If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap.  Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading.  In nature pigs go through  their dung pile...worms or no worms.

Dung that is infected is only benefical to building  up the immunity of Gilts. Healthy sow dung has very little benefit and it would be better to use weaner dung or piglets scour to trigger the production of antibodies against onfarm problems inconjunction to a vaccination programm ie Porcol 5, Gletvax 6, etc. 
I supposed Blonde, if it gives you peace of mind and not so many sleepless nights, then it is probably better for your health rather than there's. 
And how often do you worm/inject ,with Ivermectin, your sows to stop them getting reinfested with worms????      
Exactly what the vet has just told me to do in the last week   Stevie, and feed back is one of them from my old girls......not weaners and not scoury piglets because  I dont have any scoury piglets.   I use ivermectin once in a year and then wormtec.     Dont want to get them used ot the wormer and not have the effect of kiling worms.  Just done the old girls/gilts and the baors (as suggested by all the vets and the attendtion that we have been getting) while the vaccination program for PLE was going on.  Also feed back goes on when we kekep gilts back for breeding.   Great idea, builds up her immunity to any bugs that the old girls might have.  dont care that people think  it is gross, no different to a cow chewing its cud, they regugitate out of the stomach and the pigs do they same but pick it up off the ground, nose thorugh it etc.   I leave the rest to your immagination.

Stevie G

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2011, 01:36:01 pm »
OK - it is nice to see the pigs rooting for their food, but when scattering the feed I hope you avoid any going in the "Dung Area", otherwise you are asking for a worm problem. Thats why we use troughs or flat feed beds - that way the food is eaten and not any droppings that may help keep a worm life-cycle going.

Thanks
The dung area is a great source for feed back to young gilts.   The dung area holds all the herd "wogs" that should be given back to young pigs so that they  grow up with all the right material in them to prevent them getting sick.

All pigs should be wormed and so the dung area wont have worms in it. Also the worms dont survive outside the pig, they will die if exposed to the warm days.   You will only find a dead worm in the dung area after you have wormed your pigs.   Then if you worm your pigs and the pig drops its dung in the dung area....... he or she will go back through the pile in seach of the meaty worm and consume it any way.   Any undigested food found in the dung area is consumed by the pigs, I guess you dont watch the area very carefully or what your pigs are doing in this area.    Normally pigs eat their feed and then go back through their manure to consume it again...... that is what happens in nature.

If pigs are wormed which is what  I have said then there wont be a problem in the dung  area   If the days are hot which I would think a 47 Degrees C day is hot there is also no problem with worms in the dung heap.  Feed back to gilts is also absolutely necessary so worms in the dung heap/area is not an option. Management is necessary to prevent worms from spreading.  In nature pigs go through  their dung pile...worms or no worms.

Dung that is infected is only benefical to building  up the immunity of Gilts. Healthy sow dung has very little benefit and it would be better to use weaner dung or piglets scour to trigger the production of antibodies against onfarm problems inconjunction to a vaccination programm ie Porcol 5, Gletvax 6, etc. 
I supposed Blonde, if it gives you peace of mind and not so many sleepless nights, then it is probably better for your health rather than there's. 
And how often do you worm/inject ,with Ivermectin, your sows to stop them getting reinfested with worms????      
Exactly what the vet has just told me to do in the last week   Stevie, and feed back is one of them from my old girls......not weaners and not scoury piglets because  I dont have any scoury piglets.   I use ivermectin once in a year and then wormtec.     Dont want to get them used ot the wormer and not have the effect of kiling worms.  Just done the old girls/gilts and the baors (as suggested by all the vets and the attendtion that we have been getting) while the vaccination program for PLE was going on.  Also feed back goes on when we kekep gilts back for breeding.   Great idea, builds up her immunity to any bugs that the old girls might have.  dont care that people think  it is gross, no different to a cow chewing its cud, they regugitate out of the stomach and the pigs do they same but pick it up off the ground, nose thorugh it etc.   I leave the rest to your immagination.

Chewing the cud has nothing to do with them building up of immunity, but it helps the cow to digest its grass more effectively, so i don't see the connection and they don't spit it out on the ground. I understand the principle of feed back and have done it many times before to gilts, but if there is no disease present in the dung there is no guarantee that it will achieve anything. I've feed afterbirth, died piglets, stillborns back to gilts as a means of building up gilt immunity, but that holds higher risks(so only practice it when necessary), as it can make the situation worse instead of better in some cases, so good judgement(and good advice) is necessary. Its just that feedback is too miss rather than hit.
As to getting a resistance to wormer, just periodically use a dfferent one, then that won't happen. Applies to drugs as well.

princesspiggy

  • Guest
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2011, 08:14:52 pm »
can someone tell me exactly what "feed back" is?
also what is "Diatomaceous earth?"
iv never seen my pigs eat theIR dung, tho my gsd will eat both hers and theirs!  ;D
mine are fed in a concrete courtyard. the chickens will finish off any crumbs but cant steal the rolls.



Leri

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Trefriw, near Llanrwst, Conwy
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2011, 08:41:54 pm »
Never seen my pigs eating their dung either.

Hilarysmum

  • Joined Oct 2007
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2011, 09:02:16 am »

also what is "Diatomaceous earth?" 

Diatocaeous earth is big over here, and super expensive.  Its used by the bio people to worm their animals. 

gavo

  • Joined Aug 2008
  • Belcoo, Enniskillen, N.Ireland
  • Crazy Pig Lover
Re: Feeding - Troughs or rolls on the ground?
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2011, 05:26:40 pm »
Stevie G

 i don't uunderstand how encouraging cannibalism can help the health of any herd. To me that practice puts the health of your herd and that of those around you at risk of disease, not preventing them from occuring.It is definately not something i would advocate, perhaps others will disagree, but i would never do such a thing[i also think it would be frowned upon to say the least by the powers at be] Perhaps you have sound scientific evidence for this practice if you do could you please share it [although i doubt it would change my mind].

 

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