Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Nose rings  (Read 21418 times)

waterhouse

  • Guest
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2010, 07:13:16 pm »
Straining 50m of stock fence is tricky without http://shop.btcv.org.uk/shop/level3/3/stock/69 or similar.  The strainer "walks" along a chain...

You then take the chain apart and use the resultant rings in the noses of your pigs.  There, back on subject.

Eve

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2010, 08:48:10 pm »
Thanks!  :wave:

pikilily

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • Do what you enjoy; And enjoy what you do!!
Re: Nose rings- Countryfile responce!
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2010, 11:57:43 am »
This is what i wrote-

as someone who has kept pigs for only 6mnths, and is therefore still very much the novice, i would like to ask Adam Henson the rationale for the rings in his pigs noses. Is this something he reccomends, or does normally...or was there a particular reason for the rings in his field pigs in last weeks show?
Thank you
Emma Thompson


and the reply-

Dear Miss Thompson,
Thank you for your enquiry to Countryfile, as the director of the Adams Farm Pig item I have been asked to reply. Generally, Adam puts rings in his pigs noses to dissuade them from rooting up his best pasture with their snouts .

I have seen them tear up thickly matted grass roots using  their powerful neck muscles, some of his pigs have virtually destroyed the field by rooting for worms and insects.

Adam would prefer not to ring their snouts and he only does it to the worst 'culprits' and even then it doesn't always work.
I hope this helps,
Best wishes


Well he has expressed that he doesnt like doing this.

Interestingly when reseaching to find contact details etc. i did find out that the farm is a visitor centre with tens of thousands of visitors, also that the family have a history of being in the media and on TV as presenters.

My take would then be, that there may be a worse public perception of pigs milling about in just mud rather than the nose rings. As well as for the protection of the grass.... Just my take!!
Emma T
If you don't have a dream; how you gonna have a dream come true?

Sylvia

  • Joined Aug 2009
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2010, 12:19:39 pm »
Is there not a take-outable and put-inable ring for pigs? (like human ear-rings) Then you could put your pigs on your grassland with no worries and take it out to plough up a bit of land for your spuds etc.

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2010, 12:46:50 pm »
Much as I dislike rings in noses (and agree with your 'take' Emma) IF it means that by ringing it's encouraging/allowing Adam to keep outdoor, rare breeds, it's not ALL bad. Slightly better for them to be outside and alive with a ring in their nose than him to have a huge shed full of large whites and bypass the natives  ;)

Eve

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2010, 01:10:23 pm »
Yes, I'm not sure about this either... if you want pretty pastures then don't have pigs, is my humble opinion...
and these pigs weren't in a visitor part of the farm (or we would have seen it, he does all sorts for visitors), so thereofore looks don't matter in that field... and there's nothing more informative for people than seeing a pig roll in mud and a nice sign explaining to the visitors why pigs do this and debunk that myth of dirty pigs...

I'm just hoping he does something really good for nature & animals to make up for the bad of the nose ringing...

Good thing you received a reply, though, and thanks for sharing it with us!


Eve  :wave:


Mrs pig

  • Joined Nov 2010
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2010, 04:53:50 pm »
Nose ringing, tail clipping and teeth clipping/grinding and castration are all classed as mutilations and all with the exception of castration are practiced  widely in the commercial pig sector.  I personally have worked on outdoor pig farms where nose ringing is not performed and yes the sows can perform natural behaviour which is classed as being high on the welfare agenda, and yes it is painful to the pigs when done. However, a sow in a paddock that has rooted all ground cover, up to her belly in mud in the middle of winter is also a welfare issue.  If nose ringing is not performed I would suggest that a good rotational schedule of paddocks is in place to reduce excessive poaching and therefore creating poor welfare.

We also have to consider the environmental issues with nitrogen loading and leaching in NVZ areas made worse by no vegetation cover.  This is definitely a welfare v environmental argument...

Mrs pig

  • Joined Nov 2010
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2010, 05:15:29 pm »
Just a final thought on nose ringing ( which personally i do not like!) Pigs "naturally" do not live in open grassland - they are a woodland creature.  they would also root in large areas of undergrowth a fair distance from where they would have their den.  The point I make is that pigs love to root but we rarely give them enough or the correct environement to perform this behaviour without compromising their welfare in other areas.  Pigs like to wallow but they do not like to be kept in heavily poached ground in winter, if you truly want the best for your pig you need to ensure they have enough area to root but enough land so they can get away from the wet when they need to...

Pigs also enjoy grazing - if we allow poaching in winter there will not be any forage for grazing in summer, this means that these pigs are not fulfillling another natual behaviour .

Eve

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2010, 05:30:52 pm »
We weren't saying that pigs should always be in open fields regardless of the conditions or that vegetation doesn't matter...

Tudful Tamworths

  • Joined Aug 2009
    • Liz's website
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2010, 12:21:59 am »
I was really disappointed when I visited Adam's place, the Cotswold Farm Park, and saw his pigs were ringed. Even Kate Humble's beloved kunekune sows, which were there with their litters, had rings. So much for the claim that only the "worst offenders" get rings!

This wild boar x Tamworth (Iron Age) sow had rings and was clearly thoroughly bored, continually biting at a chain on the gate.



Denied normal behaviour, she was trying to find another outlet for her frustration. I spent 15 minutes watching her (I'm doing an animal behaviour degree) and felt really sorry for her - particularly as I used to have Iron Age and even though they trashed the ground, I loved seeing them rooting - displaying normal behaviour - which is one of the "Five Freedoms".

I wrote about it in my blog http://pigsinwales.blogspot.com/ but, with hindsight, I should have said something while I was at the park. I feel an email coming on.
I can understand Adam wanting to keep his visitor attraction presentable, but ringing does seem to go against the impression he gives on telly. Moreover, with the whole micro pig thing sweeping the nation, and people abandoning their pets as soon as they discover what true pig behaviour is (rooting up earth - or carpets or floorboards), surely Adam could help educate people as to the kind of damage pigs can do? If you aren't prepared to allow pigs this one basic expression of true behaviour, you shouldn't keep pigs.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 12:42:39 am by Tudful Tamworths »
www.lizshankland.com www.biggingerpigs.com
Author of the Haynes Pig Manual, Haynes Smallholding Manual, and the Haynes Sheep Manual. Three times winner of the Tamworth Champion of Champions. Teaching smallholding courses at Kate Humble's farm: www.humblebynature.com

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2010, 09:35:29 am »
If you aren't prepared to allow pigs this one basic expression of true behaviour, you shouldn't keep pigs.
I agree with you 100% Liz

pikilily

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • Do what you enjoy; And enjoy what you do!!
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2010, 10:45:17 am »
Hiya,

Tudful, I had been mulling over this over the last few days. I was going to write back to the programme producer suggesting some ideas along your lines. For example I do think that the programme romanticises aspects of farming and in particular the animal husbandry. I was going to suggest that they show a more realistic view, looking at the problems, the negatives, the day to day nitty gritty of keeping animals. The dirty stuff!!

hmmmm!!! maybe not such good pretty telly, but would make people stop and think about things before they rush off and buy half a dozen sheep for their back garden, or decide to keep pigs in their garage etc.

I just think everything is just too clean and pretty on the programme. They could discuss the aspect of keeping the animals in a way which is constructive, would dispel myths and would give people a good understanding of where their food really comes from and how it get to their dinner plate.

Emma T

If you don't have a dream; how you gonna have a dream come true?

Tudful Tamworths

  • Joined Aug 2009
    • Liz's website
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2010, 03:41:39 pm »
Emma, I think you're absolutely right. Aside from the occasional downer when Adam's cattle are tested for TB, it's all a bit light and fluffy. I really think you should write to them.
Cotswold Farm Park was real eye-opener for me, having seen Adam's "real" farm featured so extensively on Countryfile. The visitor attraction really is a sanitised version of what a farm is really like. Handfuls of animals in their little groups in immaculate pens.
Okay, so maybe a place like this is the only glimpse of livestock that many people will get - so all the more reason to make it an educational visit rather than just entertainment. And the same should go for the programme.
Thanks for raising this subject, Emma.
www.lizshankland.com www.biggingerpigs.com
Author of the Haynes Pig Manual, Haynes Smallholding Manual, and the Haynes Sheep Manual. Three times winner of the Tamworth Champion of Champions. Teaching smallholding courses at Kate Humble's farm: www.humblebynature.com

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2010, 05:49:07 pm »
well thats two of us that were at adams farm or should i say three but being lillian she asked adam  about the rings his reply was honest enough his farm is rented and all the animals mix together he cant have the grass being ploughed it really is down to individual choice and preference it was not adam that replied to the email

Muc

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Co Clare, Ireland
Re: Nose rings
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2010, 11:49:45 am »
Quote
If you aren't prepared to allow pigs this one basic expression of true behaviour, you shouldn't keep pigs.
Well said HH! It's cruel and unnecessary. If this guy Adam is so concerned about his grass, let him buy a lawnmower and stop pretending to be concerned about the animals. As more and more people are inclined towards the good life of keeping hens and pigs etc, let us here say clearly that cruelty is not acceptable.

 

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