[Buttermilk]

To me someone who chooses to be vegan and lives in an area which cannot provide a sustainable vegan diet is both hypocritical and selfish.  To get a balanced diet in such areas requires a lot of outside resources in food miles and artificial supplements.  This to me has nothing to do with saving the planet.

Natives to cold and barren areas had a diet that consisted of meat and blubber, both fresh and rotten, with little or no vegetables.  They used the skins of their animals and dogs as transport.  Having done this for many centuries having someone preach veganism to them is showing ignorance.

Places like Orkney and Shetland are halfway house sort of places where some growing plants are able to add to the diet but meat and milk are still essential to provide a sustainable healthy diet if you are not going to be importing a lot of food.

Being a vegan is a luxury only rich people can afford. 

[Polyanya]

This may come over as very flippant and its really not meant in that way but I think there are just too many people - bring on the pandemics 

[GBov]

I am not "having a go" at vegans Messyhoose, I am asking a question.

Have you, or anyone you know (vegan) ever grown your entire diet and/or sourced it totally locally?

So far, the answer has been 100% no from every vegan I have asked but many omnivores have said yes with proof enough for me to believe them.

Buttermilk, you nailed it with this..."Being a vegan is a luxury only rich people can afford. " 

The book "The Meat Fix" is a fantastic read, by the way, I highly recommend it to everyone. 

You do not need lots of land to raise meat, rabbits, guinea pigs, chickens, quail, and pigeons all take very little space and yes, that is providing them with room enough for their happiness. Been there, done that, working on doing it again asap. Allotment committees can teach snails about slow.  

With good soil and lots of organic enrichment (manure works a treat ) growing the rest of the omnivore diet takes more room than expected but can still be done, at least in part.  With bad soil and/or harsh conditions, just give up and raise more meat.  Humans can live on meat and fat alone in conditions that are shocking, wow my species amazes me all the time, what we can do, both good and bad.

Another question that bothers me.  Why are only animals considered worthy of not being eaten out of respect and not plants?  The Flora of our planet is every bit as dynamic and amazing as the Fauna, cutting edge research on how plants communicate is mind-blowing, it really is.

No one, NO ONE!!! can step out of the circle of life.  For us to live things must die, be it cow or carrot, things die that we may live.  There is no way out of that equation.  For us to even exist right now stars died in the distant past, how cool is it that we are all made of stardust?

My daughter says it best. "Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a one hundred percent mortality rate so live the best you can, you ain't around long."

[GBov]

This may come over as very flippant and its really not meant in that way but I think there are just too many people - bring on the pandemics 

Fertility rates are dropping like a rock, we are on the upper curve right before the downward slide. 

It amazes me that more people haven't started worrying about it yet but I bet when they do, women will get the blame!

The only problem with a pandemic is they are so random and I for one would like the people keeping nuclear power stations cool to be nice and healthy. 

[LittleLouandMissyMoo]

Year 2070: 

"Ok team, put your harnesses on, we have 2 acres to plough today."
"Excuse me plough-person, but have you done the horsepower/"manpower" conversion calculation as I seem to think we could do with 50 of us for 2 acres per day rather than just us 4 !"
"Look, you all decided to not exploit animals in any way and to protect the environment and now there are no animals and, despite all our efforts on the CO2 front, the weather forecast says it's today or else.  So are you ready ... ?"
"What about the worms ?"
"... Pull"

Can I steal this for posting elsewhere (without your details) please? It's brillian!

[Polyanya]

Fair point GBov re power stations - I wonder how many people would sacrifice themselves if it would truly help the planet survive - I might be persuaded 

[Fleecewife]

Fair point GBov re power stations - I wonder how many people would sacrifice themselves if it would truly help the planet survive - I might be persuaded 

My mind is boggling     Do you mean you will volunteer yourself as power station fuel Polyanya? You know it might not be such a bad idea (not the volunteering bit)  If instead of all those expensive cremations using power, once we've finished with our bodies, we could just be lobbed into the nearest power station furnace    that would save some virgin forest from around the world, and the transport costs to reach our power stations.  Nor would we need the knackers for our deadstock     Mm - I like it 

[Polyanya]

Do you think we should run with it and lobby our MP? Its really thinking outside the box isnt it 

[arobwk]

Year 2070: 

"Ok team, put your harnesses on, we have 2 acres to plough today."
"Excuse me plough-person, but have you done the horsepower/"manpower" conversion calculation as I seem to think we could do with 50 of us for 2 acres per day rather than just us 4 !"
"Look, you all decided to not exploit animals in any way and to protect the environment and now there are no animals and, despite all our efforts on the CO2 front, the weather forecast says it's today or else.  So are you ready ... ?"
"What about the worms ?"
"... Pull"

Can I steal this for posting elsewhere (without your details) please? It's brillian!

Of course you may [member=199799]LittleLouandMissyMoo[/member] but I would not describe it as brillian !  It would/could have been better if I'd sat back and thought about it.   

[Fleecewife]

Do you think we should run with it and lobby our MP? Its really thinking outside the box isnt it 

Oh definitely... and who needs a box anyway when a basket of willow withies would be much better.....

[arobwk]

Fair point GBov re power stations - I wonder how many people would sacrifice themselves if it would truly help the planet survive - I might be persuaded 

My mind is boggling     Do you mean you will volunteer yourself as power station fuel Polyanya? You know it might not be such a bad idea (not the volunteering bit)  If instead of all those expensive cremations using power, once we've finished with our bodies, we could just be lobbed into the nearest power station furnace    that would save some virgin forest from around the world, and the transport costs to reach our power stations.  Nor would we need the knackers for our deadstock     Mm - I like it 

I'm getting a bit worried about talk of sacrifice and volunteering (!), but it would make so much sense if all inedible dead-stock (animal or human) was used to help power the grid.  However, I would hope that my body's transport from hospital mortuary to power-station incinerator in due course will not be by a standard recycling lorry. 

[Fleecewife]

Fair point GBov re power stations - I wonder how many people would sacrifice themselves if it would truly help the planet survive - I might be persuaded 

My mind is boggling     Do you mean you will volunteer yourself as power station fuel Polyanya? You know it might not be such a bad idea (not the volunteering bit)  If instead of all those expensive cremations using power, once we've finished with our bodies, we could just be lobbed into the nearest power station furnace    that would save some virgin forest from around the world, and the transport costs to reach our power stations.  Nor would we need the knackers for our deadstock     Mm - I like it 

I'm getting a bit worried about talk of sacrifice and volunteering (!), but it would make so much sense if all inedible dead-stock (animal or human) was used to help power the grid.  However, I would hope that my body's transport from hospital mortuary to power-station incinerator in due course will not be by a standard recycling lorry.

I quite fancy one last trip on a bike, tied on behind hubby, or if possible on the front with him operating the controls from behind.  I wonder what the law would be about wearing a crash helmet in that case     

[Polyanya]

It just goes to show how brilliant we all are at finding solutions to problems - where will it end? 

[arobwk]

On the interesting subject of what to do with our bodies - rather than the boring subject of veganism - a US company is preparing to offer a human body composting service !!

[Fleecewife]

On the interesting subject of what to do with our bodies - rather than the boring subject of veganism - a US company is preparing to offer a human body composting service !!

Surely burial is simpler and doesn't require big composting chambers, heat, fuel etc, just a hole in the ground and Nature does the rest?