[Penninehillbilly]

Hi all, thoughts and advice please.
Last week we took on a gorgeous BC bitch, about 5 years old.
Not sure of her background, only got it quickly, apparently sold about 3 years ago through a bank holiday auction at a Mart, chap who got her either gave or sold to the lady who gave her to me.
Unfortunately she had to live in the stable, is very nervous, even a slight snap of wood burning has her jumping up.
Not sure if she was ever house trained, but if not she learned quickly, after just a few accidents she learned she would get regular walks and praises when she was good. Learned her bed under the table in a day, so very intelligent.
Couldn't understand disembodied voices on radio, but i left radio on all day so she would get used to it, all well and good untill I go near it, and then she just spins in circles
Lovely nature, but the problem is she regulary just spins in circles, any thoughts why and what I can do? She will stop and come to me when I call her, but starts immediately again. Only way to stop her is to put a lead on her, she will lay quiet at my feet, as soon as i let her go shes off again.
Also when I'm lighting the rayburn she's started barking at me, doesn't like me even opening the door, wondering if she's seen the fire when it's running and thinks it dangerous? Sounds silly, but she didn't bother for about a week.
Currently laid quiet on her bed, but as soon as I stand up, she'll start spinning again.
Spoke too soon, I don't think she likes the woman singing on the radio 
Sorry for essay, needed to describe everything that happens.


Just to add, not been ill treated by previous owner in any way, fit and healthy, I can see by previous posts on FB that the dog was nervous when she got her.

[harmony]

It is compulsive behaviour. Could be a medical problem but more likely anxiety based. The trigger seems to be you standing up so she could be worried you are leaving her. She is adjusting to a new home, new owner and living indoors. You need to find ways to distract her and reward her. Does she sit and stay? If you could ask her to sit before you get up and keep asking her then reward her, so she doesn't get the chance to spin straight away. I don't think there is an easy answer or quick solution.


You say she is quick to learn so give her lots to learn and be rewarded for.


What does she do if you leave her? Where do you leave her if you have to go out?

[Penninehillbilly]

She lives in the kitchen (we all practically live in the kitchen, apart from sleeptime  ),  she settles on her bed overnight and when I am out. Other dog JR, sleeps in OH's chair.
OH says she settles as soon as I go out, even when she's been spinning (radio is on windowsill behind sink, so whenever I go near sink/radio she goes faster, settles as soon as I walk past her to leave kitchen. I'm in and out of kitchen all day,

[SallyintNorth]

They’re tortured geniuses, these dogs, and she sounds like she’s doing pretty well in a totally new situation to me! 

I think it very likely the spinning will reduce as she becomes more settled and confident.  But to aid her in breaking this habit, can you give her some other distractions?  Most BCs are very playful, and this doesn’t diminish as they age - can you find a toy or other game she’d like to play with you?  (But not too exciting, or that can cause its own issues! Lol.)

They also, geniuses that they are, make associations very quickly.  Sounds like she likes attention from you very much , so if you ignore her completely whenever she’s spinning, and give her fuss, treats, play with her, whatever she likes most, as soon as she stops, she’ll work it out pretty quick.

As to the radio - their hearing is phenomenal, they’re bred to be able to hear the shepherd’s whistle out on the hill across a mile in a gale!  So a noise level that’s normal for us could be excruciating for her. 

One possibility about the Rayburn is she knows it makes the room hot, and it’s too hot for her.  It took Dot years to adapt to living indoors, and she still seeks out cool spots.  In summer I mostly have the back door open so she can retreat to a cool spot outside when she needs to.   Reading your post again, it’s also possible your bitch has associated the bangs and crackles of the wood with the Rayburn getting lit, and they are painfully loud / scary.

[Penninehillbilly]

Spoke too soon, puddled this morning, dry overnight, OH walks them first thing, said she'd peed, after they'd had breakfast she just squatted in front of us, doesn't go to door or anything. ?
Also goes into a spin when I'm reading paper and then when I screw it up for lighting fire.
I took a squeaky ball out with us one day, threw it for her, I think she thought I was throwing it AT her, she was off up the lane, luckily didn't go too far, allowed me to walk up to her and clip lead on, though rolled on her back, which she does every time outside, but not inside?
Difficult to play with toys in kitchen, JR would get a bit silly.
Interesting, OH just lit rayburn, not a sound or move out of her!

[doganjo]

Border Collies need work  They are bred to work. Do you work her?  If not that is the root of your problem.  You need to exercise her brain as well as her body.

I have had my French working gundog breed for 35 years - (Brittanys) took the first dog into Scotland (they have an extremely strong hunting instinct)

We have always worked ours to the gun, helping on local shoots, and at one time on our own and neighbours farms.  Since I became ill 5 years ago I've been unable to walk on rough ground, so although my girls get an hour and ahalf free running in a deer fenced woodland, the young one (almost 6) gets brain games indoors.  Retrieving work, hide and seek, obedience work - sit, stay, come, emergency stop etc

[Penninehillbilly]

At the moment I'm letting her settle, I walk her a fair way up the farm tracks, practising recall and sit, because she is so nervous, I am having to watch all the time for people about. Was planning on taking her in the field, but goats are in there during the day, so until I know she is safe with them, i have to be careful, also i was warned she chases hens, that may be a problem 

[doganjo]

Ok, I understand that, but until you can work her try to encourage her to take part in home activities, dog games in the  evenings. As i said get her brain working if you can't let her physically work yet
This is quite a good book -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brain-Games-Dogs-provide-stimulation/dp/1842862774/ref=asc_df_1842862774/?tag=googshopuk21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310817437803&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6991148898707955445&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046907&hvtargid=pla-333413342043&psc=1

[harmony]

At the moment I'm letting her settle, I walk her a fair way up the farm tracks, practising recall and sit, because she is so nervous, I am having to watch all the time for people about. Was planning on taking her in the field, but goats are in there during the day, so until I know she is safe with them, i have to be careful, also i was warned she chases hens, that may be a problem 

I get the settling in bit but some of that is her learning what you expect from her. How long do you let her "settle" and then unsettle her by changing what she has got used to? There is such a lot going on with her that maybe you should seek help locally? Your vet could perhaps recommend someone. You will have to think outside the box. If she is 5 and no-one has thrown her a ball then she isn't going to know what the game is about. Roll it along the ground instead. Take her in the field with the goats and chickens, on a lead, don't make a big deal of it but don't walk straight at them, "tell her to leave them" or "that'll do" as you move around them. When you tell her to leave or that'll do draw her towards you. You can build up the length of lead/rope over time until you are happy she has learnt to ignore. I wouldn't put her in any situation where she could disgrace herself.


How did you let her know the puddle in the kitchen was unacceptable?

[Penninehillbilly]

I get the settling in bit but some of that is her learning what you expect from her. How long do you let her "settle" and then unsettle her by changing what she has got used to? There is such a lot going on with her that maybe you should seek help locally? Your vet could perhaps recommend someone. You will have to think outside the box. If she is 5 and no-one has thrown her a ball then she isn't going to know what the game is about. Roll it along the ground instead. Take her in the field with the goats and chickens, on a lead, don't make a big deal of it but don't walk straight at them, "tell her to leave them" or "that'll do" as you move around them. When you tell her to leave or that'll do draw her towards you. You can build up the length of lead/rope over time until you are happy she has learnt to ignore. I wouldn't put her in any situation where she could disgrace herself.

How did you let her know the puddle in the kitchen was unacceptable?

Didn't make a big deal about puddle, OH saw her and said something like 'oi oi' quite loudly, I jumped up put a lead on her, mainly to move her away from puddle, she doesn't seem to tnink and walks through it. He took her out while I mopped up.
What should we do? She generally does OK, just need her to go to door when she does need to go.

[arobwk]

You don't mention Penninehillbilly how she interacts with your other dog and how does he/she react to her - are they good together?

Without back-tracking the thread, I don't think you mention whether she used to spin with previous owner - has she always been a spinner?

[Penninehillbilly]

Been making a list of points I haven't replied to  .
Harmony, haven't got her to stay yet, sometimes still have to encourage her to sit.
I thought by giving her more time she may calm down a bit more. If I walk her in with the goats i think she would go into meltdown as they would gather round to examine her. I think I'll take her into the barn either tonight or tomorrow, give them  chance to say hello in controlled conditions.doesnt look twice at sheep (not a working dog)
Generally gets on fine with JR, bit of jealousy occasionally if he sits next to me. When she is really spinning, and giving little gruff barks, he will sometimes run to her, barking, as though telling her to stop.
Previous owner did warn about the spinning, and when we go out, she walks fine on extending lead, when I let her off she spins but in bigger circles, just a few times,  then runs round me in tight circles. Always to her left. When she is spinning in kitchen, the way she bounces round on her front paws makes me think of the way they go through the poles in agility comps.
SALLY.  If I ignore her she just gets faster, i get worried for her and give in and call or whistle and she comes to me, radio is only on low unless news sounds interesting. I will leave it off tomorrow, see what happens.
She didn't even look when OH lit the rayburn tonight, so it's something to do with me ? Not hot in kitchen, she is content on her bed, the floor covering would be cooler?
DOGANJO. Looked at the book, sounds interesting, will see if i can get one, both would benefit  . She isnt a working collie, maybe thats why she has been passed round a bit  .
Had a harness given with her, When she 'getting upset?', while I was lighting rayburn yesterday, I put this harness on her, she just laid down and went quiet!
Or when I put the lead on her when she was spinning, I tied her to table leg for a few minutes, she just lay quiet, not stressed, immediately calmed down. Obviously don't want to do that often, but it was safer for both of us at that time.
I will see if what I can do to make her think a bit. And would like to see if i can get her retrieving.

[arobwk]

Now, while BCs are generally accepted as being highly intelligent, if not the most intelligent canine variety, I think of them as bordering (no pun intended) on being autistic!   Some of your remarks Phb have got me to thinking whether your new BC falls more to the right, than other BCs, on a measure of doggie autism. 

Whatever (re the above);  I would suggest she needs absolutely loads of attention and to be routinely 'worked' hard in some form or another.  (Watch out goats !!)

Just random thoughts (that might be of no use what so ever !?).

[SallyintNorth]

Absolutely agree, arobwk!  I’ve often thought that Dot has many autistic traits.  Watching her when something different (even when it’s nice) is in her dinner bowl is hilarious      I love her to pieces and wouldn’t change anything about her (well, maybe one thing  ) - but yep, definitely high functioning autistic!

[doganjo]

To me the 'spinning' seems to be a form of the 'rounding up' that most sheepdogs do by instinct.  Sooner she gets a chance to work the better in my opinion.  Don't be soft on her, she's a dog.