[Womble]

So our wee pet tup lamb, Dinky (as in too dinky to go for chops) was nowhere to be seen this morning. Oh, wait a minute, why are there ten ewe lambs in the next field, not nine?! 

I've no idea how he got in there (where there's a willy there's a way, I guess!  ), but this gives us a dilemma. We sponged the ewes to lamb over Easter, so the last thing we need is yet more lambs appearing at the end of May.

I've read of using Estrumate as a morning after pill, but it seems that isn't totally reliable, and can also have health issues? (Can anybody confirm?  I can't find much info about using it with sheep).

The other option is to scan them so I know who's pregnant, and then just let them get on with it. So, if they lamb at the end of May, will I be able to manage them so they can lamb again intentionally the following Easter?

What do you think folks?  What would you do?

[Rosemary]

Go, Dinky!!!

Don't know about sheep, but you can get a hormone injection for cows that brings them into season thus stopping any unintended pregnancies. It's 99% effective - but we did have one heifer that it didn't work on. I've used it on all my heifers at one time or another - with only a few, it's hard to keep suckling heifer calves away from the bull and Shetlands mature early. It hasn't caused any problems - all have subsequently got in calf when they were supposed to.

If the ewe lambs are well grown - 60% of adult bodyweight is usually what's quoted - they should be OK but feeding them can be tricky especially if they are carrying singles (feeding enough to keep the ewe growing but not too much to cause a big lamb). If you do let them carry on, I'd definitely have them scanned - I'd guess that twin pregnancies will be easier to manage than singles.

If they lamb in May, I don't think you'll have any trouble getting them on an April lambing next year as long as you have plenty grass.

If he's only been in for 24 hours, he maybe hasn't done anything yet though 

[bloomer]

I'm on team dinky go on wee man...


Sorry womble no practical advice but dinky is way too cute not to cheer on from afar!!!

[landroverroy]

 I'd let nature take it's course. It's maybe Dinky's way of saying thank for not eating him. Or possibly his revenge for being given such an unmascular name.

 If your main worry is about getting the ewes back in lamb for the following Easter then that shouldn't be a problem, particularly as you sponge them. (Or you could enlist Dinky's help again to get them cycling!)
 It'll be pretty obvious by April which are going to lamb and I personally wouldn't give them any extra food as (unless it's a late year) the spring grass will provide enough for any that are lambing with less chance of lambing problems.

[Anke]

Talk to your vet - 2 Estrumate injections 10 days after and I think a week apart will sort it. However as it is a hormone your vet may have to do the injections (or at the very least you don't want to get any woman wh may be pregnant doing it). I have had a ewe lamb injected last year - no lambs despite tup lamb being observed by me happily mating her...

I would say that lambing at the end of May may cause all sorts of problems - flystrike being one of them and ewes (esp ewe hoggs) being heavily in fleece and more likely to get cast on their backs in what could be really hot weather...

[SallyintNorth]

Presuming these are Zwartbles girls?  I'd have thought they'd be likely to be well enough grown to cope.  Is Dinky pure Zwartbles too?

We had unexpected hoggs lamb mid-May one year (rig had worked when temp fell below -15C.). 10 lambed 11 lambs, all fine apart from the twin-bearer.  They'd had no feed because we hadn't realised any were in lamb, so the twin-bearer suffered, but all the singles were absolutely fine.  So fine, in fact, that we contemplated tupping a batch of hoggs for May lambing every year thereafter!  (But can't guarantee singles, and don't like hoggs with twins.). These were commercials.

In your position, with Zwartbles, I'd probably talk to the vet about morning after treatment.  If no go, then definitley scan, and I would cake the twins but not the singles after the scan, unless any singles are skinny, of course.  And give minerals and so on, of course.

If Dinky is a Zanx Loagwhart, I might think it's fine to let the girls get on with it.  The lambs shouldn't be over-taxing and the girls will learn their job.  Although Easter Sunday 2018 is 1st April, so you'd be looking to get an 11 month annual cycle from them, notwithstanding the temptation of the date... :/

[Womble]

Hmmm,  Dinky is pure Zwartbles, and so are most of the girls. However, he could potentially have covered the Zanx Loaghwart ewe lambs too. However, they're all about 60% of adult size, so should cope, especially if we scan them and then feed accordingly.

The difficulties as I see them are:

• Our nice compact Easter lambing could now be out of the window, and there's only so far I can push things wrt my work.
• Potential difficulties from lambing lambs, and potential to stunt the growth of the Mums.
• Managing the health of the Mums in early summer, as Anke says.
• We'll be over-stocked if we can't sell the ewe lambs as gimmers (unless we scan and sell the empties I guess)
• Any pregnant lambs could give birth at the beginning of June (152 days from now), so with Easter falling early in 2018, we'd actually need them to be on a 10 month annual cycle. My gut feel is that's pushing it a bit, since they still have growing to do.
• As Bloomer says, Dinky is cute as hell, and really well marked. However, he's not exactly what I would have chosen as a breeding tup, as he was born very small and never really caught up. We were even joking about renaming him 'Edward', and showing him as a tup lamb next year! 

The advantages of lambing are:

• No messing about with drugs and (two?) vet call outs to administer them
• Bonus lambs
• We'd know that Dinky was fertile!

Still pure raging, so I am. I should have chopped his balls off when I had the chance!

[Backinwellies]

Maybe shutting stable door a bit late but something to think about for this year ..... ring anything which is small and therefore may not make the freezer in 6 months ( done this 2 years now and it pays off!)

He is very unlikely to have mated more than a very few in that time. ... let them be .... sell any that lamb  with lambs at feet next summer ....  solves your space and growth issues and doesn't cost a fortune in vets fees.

[Womble]

The truth is, by the time Dinky started doing well enough to de-bollock, he was over a week old, and thus illegal.

A genuine question then - since his genetics are perfectly good, and he's only dinky due to the crap start he had in life, is it likely that his lambs will be perfectly fine anyway, and thus could be sold along with their Mums?

I do like the idea Backinwellies, I must say. However, I'd obviously make sure any potential purchasers were aware of the issues discussed above.

Edit: Mrs Womble has just pointed out the obvious flaw in this plan (and here's your first bit of amusement, Pharnorth): "For Sale, Ewes with inbred lambs at foot". Bound to be a winner, don't you think? 

[pharnorth]

Let the lambs come for no better reason than I feel some splendid Womble anecdotes will follow. Anyway I have a silly unfounded hunch his minisculeness will throw some superlative genes.

[SallyintNorth]

I might be bothered about teenage Zanx Loagwharts to a potentially full size (genotypically) Zwartbles....  

On another occasion, Womble, you could get the vet to castrate by whatever technique they prefer, be it anaesthetic and ring, blooodless castrators or a snip.  Taking him to them, which would be no problem with a lamb a few werks old, it shouldn't cost overmuch.

[Anke]

Yes I learned my lesson that way too - Shetland tup lamb with only one ball down, couldn't be done in time and in the previous 8 years I never had one jump the fence.... needless to say Mr Tup was unceremoniously despatched to another field and sold as a Hogg in early summer. I felt even more stupid as I did have a field further away available...

However a) being overstocked, b) short of holidays from work - I would always want to observe 1st timers at lambing and c) management issues for early summer it looks most sensible to me to get the injections done - speak to your vet, it all depends on your relationship with him/her. It is a simple intramuscular injection, just needs to be done twice for sheep.

[Womble]

AAAARGGGHH!!!

Sometimes I think my only purpose in life (and certainly on this forum) is to act as a warning for others.

So we removed Dinky and made him go and stand in the naughty field to think about what he's done (I swear the little fecker is still smirking three days later).

I then repaired the wall, so that I was sure our stock tup, Brynmor couldn't get over it. However, I hadn't recognized that the wall wasn't as high from the other side - oops. So, one of the Zanx Loaghwart lambs jumped over both walls and the electric fence during the night. I found her this morning snuggled up to Brynmor  smoking a cigarette (awwww ).

So today's lesson is just because the tup can't get to the ewe lambs, doesn't mean that the more agile ewes won't get to the tup instead.

So now, my final day's holiday will be spent putting up a fence. Dammit.

Injections all round, methinks 

[Anke]

Well that's just made me laugh.... Happy New Year! (at least t's not chucking it down today...)

[SallyintNorth]

Well that's just made me laugh.... Happy New Year! (at least t's not chucking it down today...)

And ditto .