[Hellybee]

IMHO as long as you still have the EID bit intact, i dont see the problem in altering the tags to suit your flock 

[supplies for smallholders]

Im Not stating there is a problem whit what woolly said , nor am I saying that altering the design of an approved tag is correct or should be .

What often seems to be a sensible solution does not always meet with "official" approval.

My personal view on this particular one is : that by removing the part of the tag that "wraps" around the ear you are reducing the area of the tag in contact with the ear. Sure it may weigh a few grammes less, but will be more susceptible to being pulled through the ear should it get snagged slightly.

I just wondered what the official view on this practice would be in the event of an inspection - has anyone asked the question?

thanks

[supplies for smallholders]

Just as a final point,

If you cut off the "flap" of the Bubblegum EID Tag how do you comply with "One of the identifiers must be electronic and both must bear the same individual number." found here : http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/movements/sheep/nextsteps.htm

Thanks

[Hellybee]

When i spoke to an Allflex dude in the Royal welsh, he was very very helpful, and also said that you could cut the loop bit on the bubblegum ones.  I did like the look of theyre button ones most, he showed that they have some bend in the plastic so not totally rigid. 

[supplies for smallholders]

Hi again,

Most sales people are very helpful, but just check what the Legal line is on cutting bits off tags that are supposed to show a number before you take a salesmans word for it.

[Hellybee]

Sorry what i meant was just snippin through the loop not cuttin any of it off.  As i said earlier we are liking the button so it wont make any difference to us    

[supplies for smallholders]

My apologies - I misunderstood - I thought you were cutting the flaps off as per Woollys post.

Thanks

[woollyval]

Just as a final point,

If you cut off the "flap" of the Bubblegum EID Tag how do you comply with "One of the identifiers must be electronic and both must bear the same individual number." found here : http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/movements/sheep/nextsteps.htm

Thanks

Well it says
Sheep must be identified within 6 months of birth for (intensively reared stock) ie animals housed overnight, or 9 months of birth for (extensively reared stock) ie animals not housed overnight. You will need to apply two identifiers to sheep kept beyond 12 months of age. One of the identifiers must be electronic and both must bear the same individual number.

They DO have the same number, one is just electronic!
If you use a bolus and an identification tag you can only read the tag....the bolus has to beep the same number......sooooo if I alter a tag to make it more humane I personally see no difference....it will still be yellow, will still beep and will still show a matching number! SFS if you saw the size of my sheeps ears you would appreciate my problem!

[humphreymctush]

A couple of days ago I double tagged all my lambs with Richey electronic tags. Two of them had lost a tag by the next day by getting it caught in the fence.  However I was able to find the tags and it was the tag not the sheeps ear that had broken. Better still the bit that broke was the "male" portion of the clipping mechanism which is removable on that type of tag so I was able to replace these from unused tags. which meant I didnt need to replace the other tag to get the numbers to match. My dog did however have a bit of a job getting them all in again after their nasty experience the previous day.
On my suffolk x lambs the tags seem ok but they are definately too big and heavy for the pure shetlands.

[farming-girl]

Did everyone recieve a DEFRA booklet which outlined the new EID rules???  You are allowed to remove tags on welfare ground, however these have to be replaced once the ear(s) have healed.  Also if you are having problems with only the tag with the EID tag in due to the extra size / weight etc it may be worth considering a ruminal bolus.  These, are inserted down the throat and sit in the bottom of the rumen.  When scanned they contain the same information as an EID tag, you then have 2 normal tags in the ears which have the number which can be read visually.  I have also found in my experience that tag losses are usually connected with one of a few things: Using incorrect pliers to apply the tag / incorrect placing of the tag in the ear / poor tag design (ie choosing the wrong shape or type of tag for the breed & management systems use etc) It will most defanitly be a game of trial and error until you find the tags that are best for your flock. 

A useful piece of info....lambs do not have to be tagged until they are 9 months old (if kept extensivly) 6 months old (kept intensivly) or before they leave the holding.  It may be worth only applying the non EID tag whilst they are home (for management purposes) then before they go or when they get to the stated ages then apply the EID tag.....the lambs ears are likely to be bigger then and the tag will not be so disproportionate to the size.

However I think as much as the EID regulations seem farcical and pointless, as a British Producer one of our key selling points is that our meat is fully traceable.....in order to make that claim we need to make sure it is!

[woollyval]

I agree with everything you say farming girl.....and would say that is fine for the usual breeds of sheep....which I have kept hundreds and hundreds of over the years.
Problem is with the primitive breeds some of which are too small to use a bolus even as shearlings/adults and have ears approx 2 inches by 1 inch......and that IS small! If an ear gets ripped there is nowhere left to put a replacement

[waterhouse]

If it's any help the tags I've lost have all been Ritchey wrap around AutoEID tags.  The certainly don't ping unless an 40mm tear to the edge of the ear counts as pinging.  We've got mules with big ears so the scale of the damage is huge.  Ritchey hasn't answered my email.