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Author Topic: 20 acres smallholding ideas  (Read 7022 times)

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
20 acres smallholding ideas
« on: October 28, 2016, 03:29:41 pm »
Hello everyone!
I saw a fantastic smallholding for sale in wales!
It has a two bedroom house with a double garage and a barn. House is in a fairly good state.
15 acres of good pasture and 5 acres of woodland. Land is divided in three paddocks. One has access to the main road.
It's near lampeter and only 7 miles from the coast! You could cycle to the beach lol

The best thing about all of that is the price - £140,000!!!

Anyway, my question is what are people's ideas of using all that land?
I was thinking of using some of it for livestock  (obviously...), about acre for growing vegetables and other plant based food and several acres for a camping site.

Any other ideas or suggestions?
I really want to go and see it in person! Hopefully my car is fixed tomorrow lol
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 04:17:26 pm »
Sounds too good to be true! Hope you get to see it tomorrow - look forward to your report  :thumbsup:

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 04:58:50 pm »
I had a quick google ... is it the one that is up for auction and described as "non-traditional construction"?  If so, then it's cheap because it'll be a cash sale (ie not mortgageable, and possibly not insurable?), and it's tiny. :)  But if you have the cash and don't have a big family then it could be fab!

henchard

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Two Retirees Start a New Life in Wales
    • Facebook
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 05:04:42 pm »
Foobar beat me to it. But if it's that one

A) It's up for auction and Estate agents tend to put low guide prices to 'hook people'

B) It's a non traditional construction (e.g. something like a Woolaway bungalow) so could have inherant faults and they are generally not mortgageable (and consequently hard to sell as well).

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 05:17:36 pm »
I had a quick google ... is it the one that is up for auction and described as "non-traditional construction"?  If so, then it's cheap because it'll be a cash sale (ie not mortgageable, and possibly not insurable?), and it's tiny. :)  But if you have the cash and don't have a big family then it could be fab!
Yes it is. I realise it is to be auctioned.
As for cash I would have to speak to my father in law (I. E. Mr landlord).
I know it's a small house but it could be extended or converted in the future. At the moment we only have one baby anyway...
In Leicestershire 20 acres of land with nothing at all on it goes for that price!
Personally I wouldn't mind living in a yurt - as long as it's my own! Not sure if my wife would like it though lol
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

henchard

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Two Retirees Start a New Life in Wales
    • Facebook
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 05:28:19 pm »

In Leicestershire 20 acres of land with nothing at all on it goes for that price!


Well as someone who has made the move to Wales I wish you well; but the reason that prices are so much cheaper is that there is very little work in the area and it is fairly isolated with little public transport. That area is fairly Welsh speaking and priority would be given to Welsh speakers for most public service jobs/bank/post office etc. jobs.

The schools almost certainly teach in Welsh there as well.

Good luck if it's what you want but please do your research and go in with your eyes open.

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2016, 07:16:07 pm »
Thank you for different view points!
But anyway do you have any suggestions as for what could be done with similar sized land? I've seen another smallholding of 20 acres in Leicestershire.
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

pharnorth

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Cambridgeshire
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2016, 08:16:02 pm »
So to answer the original question, it depends on whether you are looking for generating an income, having some fun, or be somewhat but not entirely self sufficient.  We have 14 acres near Cambridge and it is unlikely to be ever self sufficient because of the cost of land / house so you start with huge overhead and need a decent day job just to stand still. So we mostly produce for ourselves, and I aim to make the livestock enterprise cost neutral, but because there is a good local market can sell our excess at a premium. We keep chickens, ducks, goats (angora) pedigree sheep, Berkshire pigs and do a few horse liveries.  Along with a few vegetables and some decent fruit trees Tescos doesn't get much custom from us. Waitrose even less.  Even with a lower initial outlay it seems most smallholders rely on tourists, giving courses or an outside job to make it work.  If I were you I'd have a good look at Tim Tynes new book I love his approach to realistic self sufficiency 

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2016, 08:26:10 pm »
Hello everyone!
I saw a fantastic smallholding for sale in wales!
It has a two bedroom house with a double garage and a barn. House is in a fairly good state.
15 acres of good pasture and 5 acres of woodland. Land is divided in three paddocks. One has access to the main road.
It's near lampeter and only 7 miles from the coast! You could cycle to the beach lol

The best thing about all of that is the price - £140,000!!!

Anyway, my question is what are people's ideas of using all that land?
I was thinking of using some of it for livestock  (obviously...), about acre for growing vegetables and other plant based food and several acres for a camping site.

Any other ideas or suggestions?
I really want to go and see it in person! Hopefully my car is fixed tomorrow lol

 If it's in the national park area there ,  you might find it mind bogglingly frustrating to try and get planning for anything  .
Also if the place is a wood construct it might be about all you can do to replace a weather board etc. and even then you'll likely run into problems trying to improve any of it .

Perhaps ask Mab ( he sometimes comes on to the forum  )  , he has a bit of history in this sort of area  & is not that far from where you might be looking .

 You might also look on line to see if there are any restrictions on the area if it is in the Welsh national park system , about you cultivating the ground rather than leaving it as sheep grass etc .
Some friends had their market garden idea squashed  they found that they were not allowed to use any nitrate content fertilizer . Another was told that he's not allowed to plough , disc cut or harrow the land he owned   .
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

henchard

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Two Retirees Start a New Life in Wales
    • Facebook
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2016, 08:32:15 pm »
I'd also add, as you mentioned a campsite, that you research that carefully as there is the issue of site licences. planning or exempted organisation sites. Then there is the issue of infrastructure costs. Even then there needs to be a reason as to why people would want to camp there. Why would people want to camp on the land you are looking at? Are there attractions nearby? etc. Research is the key here.

As for other income you'd need to be looking at niche markets and how you can offer 'added value'. Organic delivered vegetable boxes, specialist rare breed meats, etc.

Other areas to think about are do you have an existing skill you can incorporate? e.g. running a course there if people can camp on your land. That type of thing.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2016, 08:48:59 pm »
As for other income you'd need to be looking at niche markets and how you can offer 'added value'. Organic delivered vegetable boxes, specialist rare breed meats, etc.
Is there likely to be enough of a market for organic/rare breeds, etc.?  These often, alas, come with a prosperous middle class

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideasc
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2016, 09:10:24 pm »
Go and have a look anyway, and do the research, because each time you do that you learn so much.

But things that leapt to my mind include:

  • 20 acres in Wales will probably do a lot less for you than 20 acres in Lecicestershire, possibly even as little as 1/5 as much.  So ask locals what numbers of stock they think you could keep on 5 or 10 acres ;)
  • a Woolaway bungalow in Leicestershire in winter is a very different proposition to one in Wales, even one in South Wales. Winter will be longer, colder and wetter, all of which might make the Woolaway bungalow really quite expensive to live in, maybe even unpleasant to live in
  • that longer, colder, wetter winter will also have its effect on what stock you can carry - you may need to house them for several months, and will need hay to feed them, and so on
  • you can't just turn agricultural land over to a veg plot, so make sure you find out exactly what the rules are

Have fun!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 09:13:50 pm »
As for other income you'd need to be looking at niche markets and how you can offer 'added value'. Organic delivered vegetable boxes, specialist rare breed meats, etc.
Is there likely to be enough of a market for organic/rare breeds, etc.?  These often, alas, come with a prosperous middle class
Yes there is a lot of market for it.
What I wanted is even more specialised with only one or two farm in the entire UK doing it at the moment.
Basically we are Muslim and live in an area with a large muslim population - Leicester.
The only muslim owned organic farm in the UK that I know of is Willowbrook Farm near Oxford. People order lamb and chicken boxes from them to Leicester. Over £10 per chicken!
The only competition is me lol
The thing is I only grew about 40 broilers. If I had 20 acres I could grow a looooot more. As well as sheep and perhaps goat or deer meat as well. And run a Muslim friendly (but not only) campsite/wedding  venue or something of that sort.
The possibilities are endless!
I've been to a fantastic farm where the barns were converted into accommodation for school trips and other organised groups. My mother has worked as a hotel manager all her life.
Btw me and my wife are both scout leaders and would love to incorporate the scout camp ideas into our own venue.

I'm not really keen on growing vegetables commercially. Only for our own use. Maybe for our animals as well.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 09:17:14 pm by macgro7 »
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

mab

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • carmarthenshire
Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 09:46:37 pm »
Quote
Perhaps ask Mab ( he sometimes comes on to the forum  )  , he has a bit of history in this sort of area  & is not that far from where you might be looking .

possibly my case is similar - I bought a place (30acres of slope a goat could fall off) with a 'chalet' - actually started life as aa double static caravan, then had a conservatory built onto it - so legally no longer a static but a chalet. The important thing is it's been lived in for over 40 years, council tax been paid on it, services connected, etc (i've been here over 4 years now), and it has residential status so I should be able to get replacement dwelling permission (I've had the planning officer around and he thinks there shouldn't be a problem) - I'm actually in the process of submitting an application (keep your  :fc: please folks!). Also I'm not in any sort of conservation area.

if 'your' house has been a full time residence for many years with council tax paid then you should be in a good position - although I'm no expert.

I'm not going to be able to offer much advice on what to do with the 20acres - if it needs to make money for you then good luck but it won't be easy. If you have a day job then you can do smallholding for whatever you want (assuming no local restriction as others have said).

It's worth doing the research though - have a look around, check OS map for public rights of way passing through, etc.

I'll be interested to see what it actually goes for - if the existing house is good I'd expect it to go for quite a bit more. I paid ~150 for mine (not auction), but my house wasn't 'good' - in fact the estate agents particulars described it as "could be habitable... with a bit of work..."  ;D a very optimistic description THB.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 10:23:00 pm by mab »

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
    • Nantygroes
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Re: 20 acres smallholding ideas
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2016, 08:20:12 am »
Not many Muslims in Wales ...... if that is yr plan then look for land in Leistershire where your market is.
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

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