The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: macgro7 on October 28, 2016, 03:29:41 pm
-
Hello everyone!
I saw a fantastic smallholding for sale in wales!
It has a two bedroom house with a double garage and a barn. House is in a fairly good state.
15 acres of good pasture and 5 acres of woodland. Land is divided in three paddocks. One has access to the main road.
It's near lampeter and only 7 miles from the coast! You could cycle to the beach lol
The best thing about all of that is the price - £140,000!!!
Anyway, my question is what are people's ideas of using all that land?
I was thinking of using some of it for livestock (obviously...), about acre for growing vegetables and other plant based food and several acres for a camping site.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
I really want to go and see it in person! Hopefully my car is fixed tomorrow lol
-
Sounds too good to be true! Hope you get to see it tomorrow - look forward to your report :thumbsup:
-
I had a quick google ... is it the one that is up for auction and described as "non-traditional construction"? If so, then it's cheap because it'll be a cash sale (ie not mortgageable, and possibly not insurable?), and it's tiny. :) But if you have the cash and don't have a big family then it could be fab!
-
Foobar beat me to it. But if it's that one
A) It's up for auction and Estate agents tend to put low guide prices to 'hook people'
B) It's a non traditional construction (e.g. something like a Woolaway bungalow) so could have inherant faults and they are generally not mortgageable (and consequently hard to sell as well).
-
I had a quick google ... is it the one that is up for auction and described as "non-traditional construction"? If so, then it's cheap because it'll be a cash sale (ie not mortgageable, and possibly not insurable?), and it's tiny. :) But if you have the cash and don't have a big family then it could be fab!
Yes it is. I realise it is to be auctioned.
As for cash I would have to speak to my father in law (I. E. Mr landlord).
I know it's a small house but it could be extended or converted in the future. At the moment we only have one baby anyway...
In Leicestershire 20 acres of land with nothing at all on it goes for that price!
Personally I wouldn't mind living in a yurt - as long as it's my own! Not sure if my wife would like it though lol
-
In Leicestershire 20 acres of land with nothing at all on it goes for that price!
Well as someone who has made the move to Wales I wish you well; but the reason that prices are so much cheaper is that there is very little work in the area and it is fairly isolated with little public transport. That area is fairly Welsh speaking and priority would be given to Welsh speakers for most public service jobs/bank/post office etc. jobs.
The schools almost certainly teach in Welsh there as well.
Good luck if it's what you want but please do your research and go in with your eyes open.
-
Thank you for different view points!
But anyway do you have any suggestions as for what could be done with similar sized land? I've seen another smallholding of 20 acres in Leicestershire.
-
So to answer the original question, it depends on whether you are looking for generating an income, having some fun, or be somewhat but not entirely self sufficient. We have 14 acres near Cambridge and it is unlikely to be ever self sufficient because of the cost of land / house so you start with huge overhead and need a decent day job just to stand still. So we mostly produce for ourselves, and I aim to make the livestock enterprise cost neutral, but because there is a good local market can sell our excess at a premium. We keep chickens, ducks, goats (angora) pedigree sheep, Berkshire pigs and do a few horse liveries. Along with a few vegetables and some decent fruit trees Tescos doesn't get much custom from us. Waitrose even less. Even with a lower initial outlay it seems most smallholders rely on tourists, giving courses or an outside job to make it work. If I were you I'd have a good look at Tim Tynes new book I love his approach to realistic self sufficiency
-
Hello everyone!
I saw a fantastic smallholding for sale in wales!
It has a two bedroom house with a double garage and a barn. House is in a fairly good state.
15 acres of good pasture and 5 acres of woodland. Land is divided in three paddocks. One has access to the main road.
It's near lampeter and only 7 miles from the coast! You could cycle to the beach lol
The best thing about all of that is the price - £140,000!!!
Anyway, my question is what are people's ideas of using all that land?
I was thinking of using some of it for livestock (obviously...), about acre for growing vegetables and other plant based food and several acres for a camping site.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
I really want to go and see it in person! Hopefully my car is fixed tomorrow lol
If it's in the national park area there , you might find it mind bogglingly frustrating to try and get planning for anything .
Also if the place is a wood construct it might be about all you can do to replace a weather board etc. and even then you'll likely run into problems trying to improve any of it .
Perhaps ask Mab ( he sometimes comes on to the forum ) , he has a bit of history in this sort of area & is not that far from where you might be looking .
You might also look on line to see if there are any restrictions on the area if it is in the Welsh national park system , about you cultivating the ground rather than leaving it as sheep grass etc .
Some friends had their market garden idea squashed they found that they were not allowed to use any nitrate content fertilizer . Another was told that he's not allowed to plough , disc cut or harrow the land he owned .
-
I'd also add, as you mentioned a campsite, that you research that carefully as there is the issue of site licences. planning or exempted organisation sites. Then there is the issue of infrastructure costs. Even then there needs to be a reason as to why people would want to camp there. Why would people want to camp on the land you are looking at? Are there attractions nearby? etc. Research is the key here.
As for other income you'd need to be looking at niche markets and how you can offer 'added value'. Organic delivered vegetable boxes, specialist rare breed meats, etc.
Other areas to think about are do you have an existing skill you can incorporate? e.g. running a course there if people can camp on your land. That type of thing.
-
As for other income you'd need to be looking at niche markets and how you can offer 'added value'. Organic delivered vegetable boxes, specialist rare breed meats, etc.
Is there likely to be enough of a market for organic/rare breeds, etc.? These often, alas, come with a prosperous middle class
-
Go and have a look anyway, and do the research, because each time you do that you learn so much.
But things that leapt to my mind include:
- 20 acres in Wales will probably do a lot less for you than 20 acres in Lecicestershire, possibly even as little as 1/5 as much. So ask locals what numbers of stock they think you could keep on 5 or 10 acres ;)
- a Woolaway bungalow in Leicestershire in winter is a very different proposition to one in Wales, even one in South Wales. Winter will be longer, colder and wetter, all of which might make the Woolaway bungalow really quite expensive to live in, maybe even unpleasant to live in
- that longer, colder, wetter winter will also have its effect on what stock you can carry - you may need to house them for several months, and will need hay to feed them, and so on
- you can't just turn agricultural land over to a veg plot, so make sure you find out exactly what the rules are
Have fun!
-
As for other income you'd need to be looking at niche markets and how you can offer 'added value'. Organic delivered vegetable boxes, specialist rare breed meats, etc.
Is there likely to be enough of a market for organic/rare breeds, etc.? These often, alas, come with a prosperous middle class
Yes there is a lot of market for it.
What I wanted is even more specialised with only one or two farm in the entire UK doing it at the moment.
Basically we are Muslim and live in an area with a large muslim population - Leicester.
The only muslim owned organic farm in the UK that I know of is Willowbrook Farm near Oxford. People order lamb and chicken boxes from them to Leicester. Over £10 per chicken!
The only competition is me lol
The thing is I only grew about 40 broilers. If I had 20 acres I could grow a looooot more. As well as sheep and perhaps goat or deer meat as well. And run a Muslim friendly (but not only) campsite/wedding venue or something of that sort.
The possibilities are endless!
I've been to a fantastic farm where the barns were converted into accommodation for school trips and other organised groups. My mother has worked as a hotel manager all her life.
Btw me and my wife are both scout leaders and would love to incorporate the scout camp ideas into our own venue.
I'm not really keen on growing vegetables commercially. Only for our own use. Maybe for our animals as well.
-
Perhaps ask Mab ( he sometimes comes on to the forum ) , he has a bit of history in this sort of area & is not that far from where you might be looking .
possibly my case is similar - I bought a place (30acres of slope a goat could fall off) with a 'chalet' - actually started life as aa double static caravan, then had a conservatory built onto it - so legally no longer a static but a chalet. The important thing is it's been lived in for over 40 years, council tax been paid on it, services connected, etc (i've been here over 4 years now), and it has residential status so I should be able to get replacement dwelling permission (I've had the planning officer around and he thinks there shouldn't be a problem) - I'm actually in the process of submitting an application (keep your :fc: please folks!). Also I'm not in any sort of conservation area.
if 'your' house has been a full time residence for many years with council tax paid then you should be in a good position - although I'm no expert.
I'm not going to be able to offer much advice on what to do with the 20acres - if it needs to make money for you then good luck but it won't be easy. If you have a day job then you can do smallholding for whatever you want (assuming no local restriction as others have said).
It's worth doing the research though - have a look around, check OS map for public rights of way passing through, etc.
I'll be interested to see what it actually goes for - if the existing house is good I'd expect it to go for quite a bit more. I paid ~150 for mine (not auction), but my house wasn't 'good' - in fact the estate agents particulars described it as "could be habitable... with a bit of work..." ;D a very optimistic description THB.
-
Not many Muslims in Wales ...... if that is yr plan then look for land in Leistershire where your market is.
-
I agree. Look to your transportation costs and to the fact that a bad Winter could mean no transportation possible at all for days or weeks on end. What did the previous owner do? If he kept 20 sheep and had an outside job or did contracting for neighbours it may give you an idea of what's possible on that parcel of land. Why would people want to say at that particular spot? You may have 6 enquiries for a week in the summer holidays but who'll want to camp in January?
-
Have you been for a look?
-
But there is in BRUM & it's not such a distance either.
I seem to recall that there is a slaughter house close by that also runs a halal line , so having an on-line search for it could be very helpful .
As an aside for all smallholders who buy in feed stuffs .
If you didn't know it a business with livestock now has to have full farm to customer traceability .
Our local feed supply place is now asking everyone who buys from them to also agree to giving our names & address to be put on each till ticket .
So that in the event of a problem in the feed supply chain all affected people can be quickly contacted and the problem remedied .
They have also asked for the details for sales of cat & dog food as well , for they think that will soon also be a requirement .
Good luck in everything .
Dream big , build it bigger & build it better .
-
Have you been for a look?
Booked a viewing for next Monday.
Yes Brum, Cardiff and Bristol would be probably biggest markets if we set it up in wales.
On the other hand we are setting up an online based business.
I would want to spend my life rearing animals and growing food just for my family on a larger scale even if it wasn't the main business.
After all its not just about the money but a lifestyle. Being close to nature. Teaching children where food comes from...
Nowadays even farmers get all their food from tescos... beef farmers eat beef from the supermarket... ridiculous...
-
But there is in BRUM & it's not such a distance either.
Birmingham is 140 miles away, with a mountain range in the way. Journey time in Summer 3 to 4 hours, in Winter .....
-
Not many Muslims in Wales? What nonsense... not as many as the east mids or bits of London and the North perhaps, but walk around Prestatyn on a sunny day and for a moment you could think you were on the banks of the indus!
Certain parts of Wales were areas of that pretty poor town planning thing where they decided to group loads of a chosen minority in single areas... hence, lots of Muslims in certain towns in Wales. In fact, I think the GIS data is freely available to overlay on a map. That way you can target your demographic by overlaying census race/ religion data on top of Google earth maps. Does that make sense?
We used to rent land in leics, so can picture the whole halal customer Base thing... it's a big big deal there. I seem to remember our neighbour did a lot of work delivering sheep to a mega abattoir in Luton for eid.
I suppose as long as you've worked your logistic network out, it shouldn't be impossible... mid Wales is a long way from everywhere else though.
I like the idea that you could be just the 2nd organic halal producer in the country... that sounds like a good business idea... potentially.
-
mid Wales is a long way from everywhere else though.
Do you speak Welsh?
-
Things to consider. Distance to abattoir? Will you have /can you have processing facilities? Paying a butcher to process meat is a good way to get a wealthy local butcher and to end up skint yourself. Feed and equipment suppliers local? Poultry? If you plan on doing significant numbers for meat then be prepared for a whole shower of hassle from the FSA. Bear in mind that something that seems like a small hassle now will very likely become an onerous chore in the long term.
-
mid Wales is a long way from everywhere else though.
Do you speak Welsh?
Not much... why? Just the anthem and a few token sentences... my OH is a first language speaker though.
-
But there is in BRUM & it's not such a distance either.
Birmingham is 140 miles away, with a mountain range in the way. Journey time in Summer 3 to 4 hours, in Winter .....
Small fridge/ freezer chiller trucks & vans make such a distance an easy surmountable thing . Especially if you are selling under a collected contract direct to a slaughtering point to a bigger concern rather than doing it all your self . If your USP is what the buyer wants you're usually quids in .
Some of my friends in Scotland had a 200 or so doe meat rabbit herd almost at Stranraer ( SP?) , they went as livestock into a slaughter house in Ashby by Partney in Linconshire .
-
Here in the Marches there are at least three weeks over the Winter every year where it would be extremely foolish to go off-farm. Not necessarily due to snow, but high winds bringing down trees across the roads, thick fog or icy roads. On the subject of snow there was the Winter when it fell at the beginning of December and stayed down for six weeks, the one where it drifted a metre high, the one where the fuel tankers couldn't get out of the supplier's yard due to frozen snow, the one where all our spades and shovels were out on loan to folks whose cars got stuck on the lane..... and we don't have a mountain range nearby.
-
Have you been for a look?
Booked a viewing for next Monday.
Interesting venture mate, look forward to hearing how you get on.
Good luck with it :fc:
-
Here in the Marches there are at least three weeks over the Winter every year where it would be extremely foolish to go off-farm. Not necessarily due to snow, but high winds bringing down trees across the roads, thick fog or icy roads. On the subject of snow there was the Winter when it fell at the beginning of December and stayed down for six weeks, the one where it drifted a metre high, the one where the fuel tankers couldn't get out of the supplier's yard due to frozen snow, the one where all our spades and shovels were out on loan to folks whose cars got stuck on the lane..... and we don't have a mountain range nearby.
I'm still no clearer about why you wanted to know if I speak welsh....
-
Because a LOT of Welsh people do, some of them all of the time. If I was moving to France I would brush up my French before I bought my beret.
-
Because a LOT of Welsh people do, some of them all of the time. If I was moving to France I would brush up my French before I bought my beret.
This is why I'm confused... I don't live in Wales. Our smallholding is in Devon.
-
I saw a fantastic smallholding for sale in wales!
-
I saw a fantastic smallholding for sale in wales!
Oh.. you got me confused with the OP.. or mistakenly quoted my post when asking about the Welsh language bit. That makes sense now. Thanks.
-
So it's all my fault then lol
-
So how did the viewing go pal ?