[Talana]

It must be really difficult to manage all those goats need a good team of amazing  people, and rightly so high yielders need high maintenance. That's a lot of replacements. Buttermilk Do they run them through as a lot of these high yielders could go without kidding every year. Student smaller goat keepers don't normally plan kidded kids but allow them to grow and have first kidding at 2. but commercially you want them producing earlier. We don't calve home bred calves til 2.5 /3 years.2 years too young as they need extra care and struggle. I found kidding below 15 months old they never do well. Lambing ewe lambs we sometimes do but often they are more work and cost. We find it is better commercially to have gimmers. Ewe lambs only can rear a single.

Student and anyone interested or keeping goats, you might be interested in goat nutrition sites info:  http://gnltd.co.uk/vitamins-minerals-for-goats

[Polyanya]

Thanks Talana - I shall have to rush out and see if my Gerald has a wobble  Interesting about the fat collecting more internally than as a layer under the skin.

[Anke]

Interesting about the fat collecting more internally than as a layer under the skin.

YEs that's a goat specific issue - if your goats feel fat on the outside.... there is quite a bit more on the inside. I have seen it on the carcasses of the male kids we normally slaughter for our own consumption. BUT it does make very nice soap (the fat that is).

Re.: feeding kids - yes you are right until kids are 14 to 16 months old a good concentrate ration is essential.

[Buttermilk]

Nothing gets run through as it fouls the management plans.  Not the parlour I worked in but it gives you an idea of scale

https://www.facebook.com/AgriculturalMachineryTechnologies/videos/270128903178268/

[claire]

just wondering why people are using sheep mix or cattle mix... etc.. when you can buy 'goat mix' . is that not easier?

[Talana]

Goat mix is for general goats for all breeds, and may not have enough nutrition at certain times such as when milking, plus it's twice the price. Dodson & Horrell is a favourite with my goats but it's not enough when milking particularly when spring does't come til June! I occasionally use it more as a treat.There is no way mine would eat the required amount as it's not as concentrated, lower protein. Between them they would eat a bag a day, whiles a bag of ewe nuts last almost a fortnight. Mine refuse to eat the other makes of goat mix or pick the favourite bits out. Some people do feed it when milking but give lots of extras aswell. Sheep cattle mix  is divided into different types for pregnacy and lactation, growing youngstock, males.

[student]

Thank you for a look into St helens looking at their web site the goats are milked three times a day is that for all or just the high milkers Just wondering why a goat that kids in October would give less milk than any other as the goats are housed 24 7 they don't know what season it is housed goats would i thought get the same food all year round as would housed all year calving cows What do St helens goats eat Or from what i have read what are they given  they come across as very fussy like a change type

[Buttermilk]

The three times a day milking is for the first part of the lactation of all the goats.

Even with artificial lighting the goats brain still knows the time of year and while it can be fooled to a degree it still affects things.  Some fail to breed out of season because of this.

The feeding system is ad lib forage both hay and straw with out of parlour feeders which are a like a rotary parlour.  Different rations are given, all in nut form, according to yield/stage of lactation.  To prevent goats hopping off and going straight back on the exit is at one side of the building and the goats have to go the full length and back down the other side to get back on again, these are large buildings capable of easily housing 400 goats.

Despite being housed all their lives the goats are content and settled always being with the goats they were raised with.

Angus often takes in college students for work experience and kidding goats is a lot like lambing... A lot of the students are vet students.

[Lesley Silvester]

Not quite the same as sitting quietly by your goat's side and gently squeezing the milk into a bucket, is it?

Goat mix is for general goats for all breeds, and may not have enough nutrition at certain times such as when milking, plus it's twice the price. Dodson & Horrell is a favourite with my goats but it's not enough when milking particularly when spring does't come til June! I occasionally use it more as a treat.There is no way mine would eat the required amount as it's not as concentrated, lower protein. Between them they would eat a bag a day, whiles a bag of ewe nuts last almost a fortnight. Mine refuse to eat the other makes of goat mix or pick the favourite bits out. Some people do feed it when milking but give lots of extras aswell. Sheep cattle mix  is divided into different types for pregnacy and lactation, growing youngstock, males.

I'm feeding Dodson and Horrell which my girls enjoy but that's because it's the only one I can get locally. I did have them on Allen and Page Dairy Goat which they also happily ate but my supplier was bought out and the new owners refused to keep ordering it in, despite the fact that they sell Allen and Page chicken feeds.


Any suggestions for upping their protein intake? They do have Graze on twice a day as well - three large scoops between the two of them and ad lib hay, as well as any veggies I can get hold of. Minerals come from Caprivite and garlic granules.

[Talana]

Suggestions for extras -what you already are giving Mad Goatwoman of Madeley - also high quality forage, extra veg, alfalfa dried grass products,some kale, whole neeps(swedes) my goats love them and do milk well with them, flaked peas have heard some people add "spoonful" linseed / veg oil, linseed flakes. some add extra soya. Then theres the goat that turns up her nose " I don't like that". You have to be careful their overall concentrate ration not over 18 % protein as risk of laminitis. Us smaller goatkeepers pic and mix what's available that suits our goats best. What works for one doesn't necessary work for others. I milk record and through the winter milkers running through have a more consistent diet of hay and I can try different things to see if it makes a difference to yield and butterfats (although there's a lot of other variables that affect that.) I have found it does, even with the same product, different manufacturers! My husband asked me to try them with molasses if that would help yield as he gets for sheep in lamb -prevents twin lamb, but thought he could get more after lambed while waiting on grass to grow- no difference with the goats. Got neeps instead.

[Polyanya]

I am feeding my young goats sheep crunch (Ewe and Lamb mix) which has small pelleted grains plus things like flaked maize and peas and smells distinctly of apples, I love it and so do the goats.  Because I live in Shetland and all that that entails with bad winter weather, cancelled ferries, shipping charges etc, when I can get it, a proprietary goat feed costs around £17 a bag and because there are so few goats kept here the supply is a bit hit and miss. However the sheep crunch (which looks just like Alpen  ) with peas) is readily available and costs much less and I'd rather avoid getting the goats used to one type of feed only to have to switch to a completely different one when I couldn't find any.

I've been feeling behind the elbows and definitely cannot find any fat but they feel like my dogs ribs - sort of palpable but with a good layer of skin and my dogs are neither skinny or overweight. But I would like to know if I need to increase the hard feed with each month they grow?  Like I said before they get a couple of handfuls each per day and are 7 months old - should I increase that next Jan? Appreciate any advice - thanks.

[student]

I have noticed that goat keepers often feed ewe nuts or lamb nuts to goats How dose that effect the copper thing with goats needing more than sheep or is that put right with the red rockie

[Talana]

Yes student red rockie should balance but depends on your holding / forage ,mine have free access to red rockies and tithebarn cattle minerals feeding ewe feed.  With mine the powder tithebarn gives them a extra quick to eat boost at certain times such as kidding, although the red / yellow rockies do for most  of the time. It does depend on your forage / holding at my last place despite red rockies & D&H goat mix and capravite were deficient I had to drench once a month with a copper mineral drench as well due to high levels of molydium ? in grazing /hay- move four miles and the rockies and tithebarn minerals adequate. mine refuse to eat cattle feed for any length of time but other keepers get on well with cattle feed or goat mix.
You have to find what works best for your goats on your holding.

[student]

Thank you Talana How do you know if a goat is copper deficient I have just read a bit by Loosemore BVS copper in sheep thats scary  There is a lot about cattle and sheep never goats The goat is my chosen animal for end of term paper Not sure which term i will know about goats

[Talana]

student, in extreme deficiency during pregnancy you can get swayback in kids, some people have said a slight baldness on tip of tail. With mine it was dullness of the coat lighter colour a bit scruffy ,hair colour round eyes, which since mine are toggs look scruffy anyway and as the year progresses the coat fades in sunlight, but on the suggestion of a coppper cobalt drench from an experienced goat keeper the results were obvious when my toggs cast winter coat they were a deeper brown with extra gloss.