[waterbuffalofarmer]

I agree with you hellybee. If a law was past for set lamb prices, and imported lamb was banned whilst lamb was in season over here it would boost the economy alongside other things too. I really think Wales should try harder to export their lamb to different countries, I don't think the NFU are making much of a difference, they need to try a little harder.

What planet are you on?  Please name any other industries where such rules and laws such as those you propose are in force?  Why should sheep farmers have more ring fenced, subsidised system than anyone else?

There are not any industries that I know of at present. The reason I mentioned france was because they regard food with a lot more care and consideration than over here. The reason I am highlighting this issue is because it is one of two issues which need changing, but you can only change one issue at a time, the other being milk prices.  Another problem with the lamb meat market over here is that there is too much in the uk, hence why I said we really need to start to export the stuff abroad. Europe would only take a certain amount, but if you could tap the market in china and other places it would be brilliant. If theprice was set on a lamb and sheep, the same with the beef industry too, and there was a lot of export then the prices would be fine. Also importing new zealand lamb is a disgrace too when welsh and english lamb are in season, that should be stopped. The question I ask you all is why? Why new Zealand lamb when there is enough British lamb to go around? I am writing this because I would love to hear the general publics opinion on this issue, an open mind is a good thing

[Hellybee]

NZ via the Middle east.

[Womble]

Rosemary - I wasn't making any comment on subsidies except to note that they exist, and thus do have an effect on the market.  Whether farming should be subsidised or not is an entirely different debate.

WBF - I don't understand how setting a higher price for lamb or beef would help exports 

Presumably we're importing NZ lamb because it's cheaper than home grown. How do they manage that? Basically a combination of good climate, cheap shipping and large economies of scale.

[Backinwellies]

Presumably we're importing NZ lamb because it's cheaper than home grown. How do they manage that? Basically a combination of good climate, cheap shipping and large economies of scale.

not forgetting poor welfare !!

[Me]

Yes! All of the above.

What I can't work out though is why if you produce anything other than a 40 kg carcass here you get hammered on price but the much more economical to produce 35 kg lamb is shipped in from NZ?

[Tim W]

I think you will find that much imported lamb is shipped in as high end cuts not whole carcases (other cuts go to other markets ----south Europe, Middle east, far east)

Lamb price is primarily shaped by the £ exchange rate as we all know .
Meanwhile lamb is too expensive in the shops (if you want to get people eating it)
I think that in the future if the commercial farmer can't make a profit at £55/lamb then he better give up

[Porterlauren]

The biggest issue is. . . . no one eats lamb.

Lets face it, chicken, pork, beef. . . . they all have a better PR job, and are way more versatile. . . . .

If Mcdonalds made a lamb burger. . . . we'd be laughing.

The only exception is the Islamic population, long may they rise.

Back in wellies and womble, I'm not sure that's a fair appraisal of NZ sheep farming. . . . economies of scale yes, poor welfare??? Ive seen some pretty terrible things on British soil.

[mowhaugh]

I am very worried about the price of lamb just now.  Our entire family income is based on this, and although prices have been low in the past, I have never been as scared as I am this year.  Need to cut back in every area possible to make sure we keep afloat.

[Garmoran]

The situation must be more complex than it would appear from articles like this because prices do not appear to have dropped everywhere. Curiously, In the two sales that I sold at this year, in September and October, I sold lambs for at least £10 more than ever before. A couple of small 16kg lambs that in past years would have fetched a couple of pounds sold for £18. And other people at the same sales did even better. A few years ago blackie lambs did well if the best ones went for over £30: this year I was seeing them go for over £50.

And this year I sold four broken mouthed ewes for £32 a head - not long ago they were selling for a couple of pounds a head at the same sales.

For once I went home after the sale feeling that my breeding efforts had been appreciated but I can't really understand it.

[Coximus]

Simply put people are often treating farming like an ideal dream world, they want ot do it THEIR way and get paid. Tough, its a market.

I know people making £70/profit a breeding ewe, and I know people loosing £40
Im making between £20 and £60. Their you go.

Mules are my least profitable, Heb x Tex ewes put to Tex x easycare and Tex x heb rams have been my most profitable.

They key to making this industry work is the same as any OTHER. Keep your costs down, and accept the market sets the price. - I dont hear people complaining when snow means less animals around and they're all getting £75 a head, but they all moan when that attracts more people to sell, supply goes up and prices are down at £55.
Daft thing is, at £55 these people loose 10, at 75 they make 10, but they could of made 40 at 75.......

The key is to DITCH breeds that dont work for in your area - I see people keeping soft suff x mules on hill ground, chasing the fat lamb, but spending £££ on extra feed to keep them alive.
People nursing old ewes thru one last winter with cake.....

Ditch them.
Cull anything that has a foot problem - even once.
Focus on animals and bloodlines that Grow fast off grass.

This is why I am currently after a Charmoise - It will have to be next year, as I decided to wait until My easycare and easycare x hebridean Numbers were up closer to 100. Breeds that are low maintenance, healthy, few foot problems and costs, and finish and grow without extra feeding.

My neighbour stopped laughing at heb x easycares when He saw they didnt loose condition in 5 inches of snow....... and were consuming 1 4ft round of hay for 30 them in a week. his mules were melting, eating 3 rounds of silage a week for 35 of them. I breed my ewes to be excelent converters of poor forrage, to be hardy and to be minimal impact on the environment. And it pays. Work with nature.

I do feel for those loosing money, but in any other business, thats the warning bell, pack up!

[Porterlauren]

If you know someone making £70 actual profit per ewe, then they are probably doing better than pretty much anyone else in the country.

Or they are crap at maths . . . . . . .

My money is on the latter!

[Backinwellies]

Coximus  .... good job some of us still keep different breeds so you can keep swapping to new crosses!!
..... I object to your  'tough' comments ... yes it is  market driven and no not everyone will make money all the time ... however if someone back in the 70's hadn't kept the Heb's breed going (when I'm sure they were very unviable)  you would be now unable to use them in your crosses!    There is more to this than profit!

[Tim W]

Coximus  .... good job some of us still keep different breeds so you can keep swapping to new crosses!!
..... I object to your  'tough' comments ... yes it is  market driven and no not everyone will make money all the time ... however if someone back in the 70's hadn't kept the Heb's breed going (when I'm sure they were very unviable)  you would be now unable to use them in your crosses!    There is more to this than profit!

A valid point re-keeping rare breeds going but for many of us there is nothing more important than profit as our livelihoods depend on it

[Backinwellies]

Thank you Tim.  I totally understand the need for profit for most but felt C had gone too far with the comments. ..... todays profit making breed / cross may be tomorrows loss maker.

[Hellybee]

We ll never make money with sheep.  Well may be next year we will.  Year on year we learn what we can pull back on, ie the amount of cake we used to go through was phenomenal as real real rookies.   We still spend a lot on them, wormers, sprays, etc, and the nature of the farm has changed, so they have to start really paying theyre way. So C, I don't feel that well just shut up shop if your not succeeding sits quite right with me.  We don't want help we want the store cupboards of our nation to be feeding they're own, not bussing in meats with tenuous provenance.  That's all.