[Eagledance]

A nice prayer meeting?

To be fair a lot of pagans distance themselves from the solstice celebrations at Stonehenge which in recent years has become an excuse for a piss up and leaves huge amount of mess - not the spiritual celebration I would want!!

Ed

[Wizard]

OK eagle spit hairs When did you last go forget it Wizard

[littlelisa]

are the police going to blame witchcraft for everything??
can i ask the witches on here if it really is a ritual to put plaits in horses manes?? the police are blaming it on witches??

[Pomona]

Wizard - if you managed to get to a nice peaceful solstice celebration at Stonehenge, then you are the envy of many, as I think this year was the first that the summer solstice hadn't turned into a general rammy, with arrests and much ill feeling at the behaviour of some making it impossible for any to feel "connected" to the stones.

LittleLisa, no, there is no practise in witchcraft to plait horses manes for any purpose.   The topic of who IS plaiting the manes and why, is ongoing on many pagan forums just now, and nobody has stepped in and said that it's a practise in THEIR craft.   There used to be a practise amongst some of the less honest travelling folk to plait the mane of the horse they intended to steal: as a marker.      Again, my opinion is that the police, wonderful as they are in the main, have drawn a blank and, as seems to be the norm when there is anything sinister, blame it on a group who, let's be honest, most of the population think are either devil worshippers or weirdos     Despite the fact that the police forces in the UK have pagan officers, and Paganism being a legally recognised religion.   Imagine the outcry if they blamed the horse mane-plaiting or animal mutilation on Muslims.  Or Sikhs.   

[MiriMaran]

Pamona, the sheep are Ronaldsay, but are in Derbyshire.  Personally I don't think it has anything to do with Witchraft a whole lot more to do with someone wanting a free meal!

[sagehen]

Near Birchover by any chance?

[juliag]

Little lisa plaiting horses manes as has been mentioned above is something that both our local police and horsewatch are putting down to identifying horses that have been  targeted to be stolen. This seems to be a  fairly common thing to be happening at the moment. The advise is if you find a strange plait in your horses mane (not a tangle!) remove it at once and contact both the police and horsewatch. I dont think poor old witches of any description want that one on their hands!!

[marigold]

Hello all
I used to go to Stonehenge in my teens, in the late 70's early 80's. I was one of the new age hippy bunch that turned up on old british  bikes - but we were looking for something more meaningful than a piss up. I remember on at least one occasion a very quiet and moving slow ceremony at the stones - when they were just stones in a field. Another year we stayed in woodhenge up the road which was lovely and also very powerful. Silbury hill was a special place too for our pagan  wizard friends. I was very young and didn't ask questions but I loved the peace and natural feel of the time and place. It is true also solstice wasn't the only time we went there.
I also remember a group of weird men that I knew briefly who freaked me out with their aggressive nastiness. They wore black robes and did something horrible to a pig which thank goodness they were arrested for.
Paranoia about witches is just that, and all non thinking prejudice should be challenged and irradicated but every group / religion / community contains some elements of stupid people. Just look at what the christians are doing in the middle east

[sagehen]

Marigold, there's another thing we have in common - motorbikes!  Do you still ride them?

As for whether or not the plaited horse manes are the work of witches (or the wind) or horse thieves, I really don't know. What I do know however, is that there are many neo pagans, wiccans and neo druids who basically do their own stuff and keep themselves to themselves and have their own networks and orders and forums, but they  believe (and practise) differently to others who are perhaps more orthodox and who prefer to adhere to the practises of older beliefs, (and who won't actually declare to the public that they are druids or witches even on pain of death  ).
 
I suppose, because my social circle involves bikers and people who are more on the periphery of mainstream society  the people I know tend not to follow the more mainstream (albeit alternative) beliefs. Some of them are druids, and they do actually sacrifice animals. I think the main point is that we can't actually look at the practice of blood sacrifice within our context, because you need a totally different viewpoint of the world. If you do not believe that death is the end, then a blood sacrifice isn't viewed with the horror that most would see it. Obviously, these days, an animal is also an economic unit (especially if they belong to someone else), so the loss of that life is also a financial loss, but the potency of the life blood in terms of energy is irreplaceable really by other rituals and symbolic offerings. I'm not trying to justify the actions, merely trying to provide another perspective (and perhaps rather alien concept to most).

[marigold]

well said SG - you put a really complicated idea into words really well.
Personally I find the idea of sacrifice really difficult and if someone took one of my animals for that purpose i would find it more difficult than if they took it to feed a hungry family. Actually someone stealing one of my animals for any reason would upset me regardless. But i know that for people with traditional christian beliefs there is a huge fear around anything related to 'magic' in many ways we haven't progressed very much as humans at all in the last 1000 years

[Hermit]

In a horsey magazine I read many moons ago,it was reported that chestnut horses were being found with their tails chopped short. They found it to have been fly fishermen!!! as chestnut horse tail was used in a fly. I was asked many times for horse tail hair especially chestnut and black so I guess it must have been true. Hermit.

[Wizard]

Mornin all Pomona Yes 64/65 I was there I believe the piss up brigade are nothing to do with solstice like a lot more things.Lets go and spoil it for them.Marigold you and I know every one doesn't have an English mans beliefs do they Wots Kosher There are a lot of followers in that faith int there

[Pomona]

Morning everyone 

Wizard - yep, absolutely     Lots of room for lots of belief in this world - at least, I hope there is 

Re Sacrifice, it's a topic that I personally have issues with.  I know pagans who support the idea of sacrifice (but, perhaps strangely, have never met or talked (online with) a pagan who actually carried out sacrifice - mainly because of the ethics involved in ensuring that any animal being culled has a quick and clean and as stress-free death as possible and the unwillingness of the pagans involved to attempt that as novice cullers).   I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it myself, as I don't know how, and I would only feel comfortable if the person doing the culling was trained and experienced.

Pagans, and I am going to stick my neck out for a sweeping generalisation here, if they eat meat (and there are a large number who won't for ethical reasons) follow the Fearnley-Whittingstall approach.  Don't waste any of it.  The idea of sacrificing an animal and then just leaving the carcass to rot, would be an anathema, any sacrifices would be gifted to the gods, and the remains eaten - just as the great feast days in ancient Greece and Rome were done.

[sagehen]

Err yes pagans. Sorry but having a quite giggle here because I don't think they'd take to kindly to being called pagans - we're talking huge hairy bikers hehehe  Anyway, I don't think they waste the animals - we get invited to a knees up to share the sacral meal, plus the guy who provides the animals also gets a share.
But yes marigold, I do agree with that - we haven't really progressed very much I suppose because most of the framework for our beliefs are christian based anyway, and it does take a lot of doing to step outside of that in order to view life and death in a different way. The idea of a continuous life based on reincarnation is something that takes a lot of dismantling of a person's idea of the world. One can only view another's actions through a perspective based on a common framework, so anything outside of that is viewed with fear and suspicion.

[Wizard]

Being over 70 its a bit late to change intit  sage