[RUSTYME]

here is some of a message received from open europe...

As ratification of the EU's Lisbon Treaty draws closer, new research from Open Europe warns that the Treaty will help accelerate moves towards an EU surveillance state.  The Lisbon Treaty marks a significant shift of power away from national governments and will lead to an increase in the volume and scope of EU legislation, which is already having a profound impact on EU citizens' civil liberties and privacy.

 

As well as measures on asylum and immigration policy, EU ministers and the European Commission are currently negotiating a raft of controversial new proposals, which are set to radically increase the EU's role in policing, criminal, and security matters.

 

They include: a target to train a third of all police officers across the EU in a "common culture" of policing; the mass collection and sharing of personal data including DNA records into an EU-wide database; controversial surveillance techniques including 'cyber patrols'; the creation of a fledgling 'EU Home Office' with powers to decide on cooperation on police, border, immigration and criminal justice issues; an EU "master plan" on information exchange; the transfer of criminal proceedings among EU member states; a three-fold increase in the number of controversial EU arrest warrants; access to other member states' national tax databases; and EU laws on citizens' right to internet access, among many other things.

 

The Government's claim that under Lisbon the UK will maintain independence and can 'pick and choose' which justice and home affairs policies it opts into is a smokescreen. In practice, the UK has often been a key driver of policy, and has in some instances even exported domestic initiatives to the rest of the EU, particularly those that increase the power of the state over the individual. The most prominent example is the Data Retention Directive, which requires telecoms service providers to record the destination of our every phone call, email and text message.

 

This method of 'exporting' UK initiatives to the EU is akin to policy making via the back door, circumventing the democratic control of Parliament.

 
next year is the start of the big change , when the Lisbon treaty is ratified.  It may take a short while to kick in but when the fingers come out of the ears , and the singing stops , you will find you are living in a very different place ...no longer the UK ... but the EU .
Democracy will be dead ... a thing of the past ... there will be no free speech , only what they want you to say .....so keep those fingers in the ears folks .... the times they are a changing ...

cheers

Russ

[MiriMaran]

My OH as a policeman will be pleased - anything that gives him more power to get info leading to arrest and successful court case will make him happy.  He couldn't be more opposite in his views to you Russ and I am somewhere in between!

[doganjo]

Lalalalalalalalalalalalala  Fingers VERY firmly in ears.  I have a life to live!

[RUSTYME]

yes .. the police have changed . All you hear them talking about nowdays is POWER ... they want more and more POWER .. The power to do this, the power to do that . The power to stop anybody at any time for any reason . The power to take vehicles , the power to smash their way into your home on the supposition that you are a drug dealer ... This IS NOT what the police should be doing . How about the power to shoot to kill now as well ? Take a look at the uniforms they wear at protests now ....then take a look at the NAZIS in WW2 . Storm troopers by any other name . Covered from head to foot so you can not see who they are . All in black , and with almost carbon copy German helmets .
 The average plod on the street has a hard job to do . But the institution that is the Police force , is a corrupt one just like the government . How many of the top police chiefs are common purpose ?  Why are they ? What is common purpose doing ?  If they are not common purpose then you can bet your boots they are freemasons.... CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT !!!
 I have no idea if your oh is an ordinary plod or higher up . I don't wish to know either .Suffice to say he has his views and I have mine and we will NOT agree on wether they need more POWER .
 I don't think all police men are evil people , I know two myself and they are nice blokes. Neither of them likes the way the police force is heading , and I know another 3 ex police men , who left for that very reason .
 Although I have explained my thoughts on the police force , I do that as a generality, not as a direct dig at your oh MM , I don't know him , but if he reads this and takes offence ... tuff .... although no offence was directed at him in particular ...
 I think you said elsewhere your oh was in the police anyway, you must have as I knew it !!!  ::)does that make any sense ? oh well ...  

cheers

Russ

[RUSTYME]

yes Annie ...and as a woman aren't you lucky that Emmeline Pankhurst didn't take the same approach ??
 Emmeline Pankhurst, 1858-1928 Regarded by many as a dangerous subversive, Emmeline Pankhurst was the charismatic leader of the Women's Social and Political Union. Both she and her two daughters, Christabel and Sylvia, fought for the rights of women, engaging in low-level crime to gain coverage for the suffragette cause. Imprisoned 13 times between 1908 and 1914, Emmeline Pankhurst used hunger, thirst and sleep strikes to endanger her health so that she would be released. She died while campaigning in June 1928, less than a month before a bill giving women equal voting rights with men became law.

also lucky are many jews during WW2 , that

 Irena Sendler, 1910-2008 Working secretly against the Nazis in occupied Poland, social worker Irena Sendler succeeded in smuggling thousands of Jewish children out of the Warsaw ghetto and placing them with non-Jewish families. She laboriously recorded and buried the names of the children in jars, in the hope that they would be dug up at the end of the war and reunited with their families. She was eventually caught by the Nazis, tortured, and sentenced to death. However, she managed to escape and, undeterred by her time in captivity, continued to work tirelessly to help the Jews. It is thought that the lives of around 2,500 children were saved by her efforts during the Holocaust.

another one who made a difference:

Aphra Behn, c. 1614-1689 Aphra Behn was a highly successful professional writer at a time when women's voices were rarely recognized in the literary world. Despite suffering accusations of plagiarism, her most important work, Oroonoko (c. 1688), had a substantial impact on the development of the English novel. Virginia Woolf, some 300 years later, would say of her, "All women together should let flowers fall on the tomb of Aphra Behn... for it was she who earned them the right to speak their minds."

They too had lives to lead ...and some made it possible for others to do the same. There are many more I could list , but I think that should suffice ...I SAID I THINK THAT SHOULD SUFFICE ANNIE ....
 


cheers

Russ

[MiriMaran]

My OH is in the Major Crime Unit and deals with the nasty stuff.  We have had many a conversation about the big brother society we live in and his same old mantra is "why worry about it if you have nothing to hide" Personally I couldn't disagree more with him.  I don't want to live in a society where you are guilty until proven innocent.

My husband gets incredibly frustrated with the justice system and time and time again sees all the hard work that he has done undermined by the courts so that an obviously guilty person walks away or sentences that are far too leniant.

For all my OH's faults, and there are many  he would never break the rules or get sucked into corruption.  We have been shocked to find out that colleagues of his have been caught doing naughty things, but its not my OH's style.

You haven't offended me in the least and my OH has never been on this site, but he wouldn't be offended either he may just think you're a bit nuts

[RUSTYME]

  yes .. well on that last note MM I think I may just agree with him...
 I know that criminals get away with much more than they should do . However serial or career criminals will nearly always get their collar felt at some time or other....how did the saying go ? " you're nicked slag !!!" , well ok that was only on the Sweeney , but I lived in London then , and frequented the darker side of life on occasion , and saw many of the real life Sweeney Todd . Indeed I drank with some of them , and they actually nicked the saying from Jack Reagan !!!
  You hit it on the head when you said about living in a society where you are guilty till proven innocent ...well that is what is happening , and it is Police POWER that has caused that , along with ever increasing government interference . 
As for rules .. well the obeying the rules is to be commended , except when the rules themselves are wrong , oppressive and contrary to a free nation and democracy.  Not all rules are wrong , but many important ones are .
  The thing is it is like a bunch of bullies at school , picking on the most passive kid in the playground . They can push, and push, and push, and push, and push, then one day all of a sudden the passive kid will go ape sh*t ...and kick the crap out of anybody he can get hold of.  He will only take so much , then snap .
Well, I ain't that passive kid ....anybody pushes me, I will break their f**king arm  . Push me again, and I will rip the other bugger off and beat the crap out of them with it ....The point being by having to much power the police will be pushing the wrong ones . The ones like me will just explode , but the others ... the majority, will say enough is enough BACK OFF (or they may just snap !!)...I can see that day coming .
 Glad there was no offence taken , as none was intended. I just say things exactly as I see them . When I put those views in writing it can come out a tad... well , sharp . But that is due to my rather inept writing ability and one or two too many bangs on the head ....so once again I say , he probably would be right in thinking me nuts... 
 

cheers

Russ

[Snoopy]

You ARE Nuts RustymeBut it takes one to know one
na na nana na

 

[RUSTYME]

no .. not me ... it's everyone else thats nuts.....I'm normal ....OK OK .. stop laughing .. get up off the floor...I may be a tad Pecan or maybe even a whole bag of dry roasted ... but I am right though ..well sometimes...
 I just had a thought . I was thinking if things that are happening today , were to have happened 20 years ago , then I would have gone ape ...god knows what I would have done . But!!, 25 years ago I had the car smash , so I would have been unable to do anything much at all . Then it dawned on me the year my life changed ....it was 1984 !!!!! I had the smash on 23rd of December 1983 . The following year was very different to anything before.
 Of all the years to have picked, it had to be THAT one .....spooky  ...

cheers

Russ

[MiriMaran]

I've Twighlight Zone music spinning in my head now!

I agree and the example of police riot gear that you mentioned earlier proves your point.  If the police are so well protected they look intimidating, are more likely to be agressive as they feel safer and it also incites violent behaviour as people feel the inequality of personal protection.  And as much as anything else the police are approaching the protesters wearing colthes that show there is an assumption that violence will ensue and then some protesters understandably rise to the challenge!

[sandy]

Russ, when I read your posts I read them like a voice over in a gangster film blimy Russ, I can even hear music, well traffic noise like Robert De Nero in Taxi (don't watch many films or TV, think I caught ADHD from some naughty kid when I worked at Childrens homes ) I am not so fluent when writing my thoughts as you, but, I find it strange how people follow!!! and without question, people always say I am odd because I cannot be put into a little hole (can be put into a big one though )I do obey the laws but am well aware how easy it is to be proven quilty of something you haven't done....well.......I'll have a good think? Did you ever write film scripts or plays? maybe you should!

[RUSTYME]

  You talking to me ? ? ? ? eh ?
dah dah dum dum dahhhhhh....Ladies and gentlemen , the story you are about to see is true . The names have been changed to protect the innocent .
 My name is Friday ...eh what ..? er ...hang on .. got carried away there ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfkugbASxCY
 
 
 The twighlight zone music is still playing ... do do do doo, do do do doo ," it was a night much like any other "... oh god not again ...
 
 My dad was in the army from about 1947 onwards . He was mainly out in Iraq and Egypt , and new all the places you have seen on tv over the last 15 20 years now . It was much the same when he was there. He was in the last throws of the SOE soon to become the SAS , and they had to go in to break riots up on a daily basis .
The way they did that was to wear uniform that hid who they were and they held dustbin lids that they beat with sticks as they approached the rioters.  The rhythm of the beat would start slow and even , and as they got closer to the rioters , the rhythm of the beat would hasten, and the volume increase , this would continue till the sound was almost ear shattering ....then the riot squad would split open , and out would rush the snatch squad ...grab some rioters and then dissappear back into the riot squad.
 The rioters would then be in a state of hysteria , some trying to runaway , others standing ready to fight .. till that was .. the riot squad split once again . This time there was no snatch squad !! it was the .... tune in next week  for the next installment of ...RIOT SQUAD !!
My dads name was Thursday , I came after so they called me Friday ...dah dah dum dum dahhhhhh

 The names have been changed to protect the innocent ( although these days they wouldn't need to, because there are no innocent ones !!) , but that story is actually true  !!!! You don't want to know what happened to the rioters that were snatched , or what came out instead of the snatch squad the second time  !!!
  Now those very same riot squad actions are basic training . It IS done to intimidate and to cause fear , thats why they wear black .... it is insidious and very scary what they are allowed to get away with , and it is going to get worse ... a lot worse .

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECMVdl-9SQ&feature=related

"why worry about it if you have nothing to hide" "if you have done nothing wrong , you have nothing to worry about " , these statements are used often . Tell that to the family of the man in the above video , you can't tell him , he died within minutes of that video being taken . He wasn't doing anything wrong , walking home after a day at work . Hands in pocket trying to keep out of the way of any trouble, then BANG . Another innocent life taken , for what reason ? because he was there !!! 

 those are the people that need MORE POWER ? MORE LAWS ? MORE CONTROL ? I think not !!

cheers

Russ

[MiriMaran]

I know I know, I agree with you!

[doganjo]

My father was one of the last ones taken home at Dunkirk.  He was marching his pipers into Paris while everyone else was scarpering back to the shore line.  But I rather think he would look on your posts as subversion, Russ.  You are rather over the top.  Even if Emily Pankhurst had not acted as she did we would still have got the vote by now.  She was not alone in her forward thinking.  I have made a difference to the world.  My father made a difference to the world, and my mother, and my grandfather who died as a result of being gassed in the trenches.  Many people have made it a safer place now than it was.  If there had been better driving tests and laws 20 years ago I would not be a widow.  We need laws.

[RUSTYME]

There is no crime defined as "subversion"  in British Constitutional law. Attempts have been made to introduce definitions but there is no general consensus among political and legal theorists.  So even if I were 'Subversive' , I would still be within the Constitutional law of the UK !!
 You actually make my point Annie ...there were others like Emmeline Pankhurst, she wasn't the only one to give her time and ultimately, her life, to the problems she saw at the time .  Many have done so .
 Yes we need laws , over the top I may be , but not that much of an idiot to think we can live without laws . But the freedom that your Father fought for , you granfather died for , has been erroded and taken away from us . Even the country that they fought for has been given away , wait till next year and after,  see the changes that are set to come .  Already 80% of Parliamentary legislation, is direct edicts from the EU , that our  government has no choice but to enact. That is set to increase even more once the Lisbon treaty is ratified .
 All of the so called vetoes that Gordon Brown has said that we have , are already being thrown aside , as under EU legislation  , EU GOVERNMENT has POWER over all 'previous nation' governments !!! , and has the POWER to veto any veto we or any other country may try to invoke.
 The current government ,and previous ones, has made it possible , for the police to now have more POWER and more information on us and over us , than the KGB ever had over the people of the Soviet Union . That is set to increase also .
People are still under the misapprehension that we are in a free country ... we are not . All your telephone calls , your emails even your texts are monitored and recorded .It has been made law that telephone companies and internet companies MUST keep these records !!, so much for the free country !!.  This is where the statement pops up about  "well if you are doing nothing wrong , then what does it matter ?" , it matters a lot . But for those that don't see it, well , so be it , but an ever increasing amount do see it , all be it a tad too late !!!


cheers

Russ