NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Buying land  (Read 4177 times)

discodan

  • Joined Oct 2013
Buying land
« on: October 11, 2013, 03:15:28 pm »
Hi all,

I am new to the site and joint primarily to ask for some help. I am thinking of buying some land ( Around 5 acres )  it has a converted stable block on it. The stable block has stood there for over 20years but I am unsure of how long it has been converted to an amenities building. it has no mains water, electricity and waste. I have been informed that there is no residential rights on this land and I have been told it is very unlikely that I would get permission. What are there rules of living in this building and do I have any rights if I own the land and building and do not expand. also would I be able to connect to the mains or do you think they will reject that as well?

Im not intending on building an estate on this land just want to make a home for me and my partner and our horses.

I beg for so useful information. If you agree that legally I cant live here could any one help on how to over come this in any way?

Many many Thanks

Dan
Voss Electric Fence

cotswoldfarmer

  • Joined Oct 2013
Re: Buying land
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 03:40:32 pm »
Hi discodan

Take a look at this. mite help answer so questions. http://www.fieldtofarm.com/

discodan

  • Joined Oct 2013
Re: Buying land
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 03:42:28 pm »
thank you

si-mate

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Kent
Re: Buying land
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 10:27:38 am »
Hi Dan,
If your horses are just a hobby then your chances are incredibly slim. If you can make a living from them then you have a chance.


This is the document that all planning departments should be working from. Have a look at page 9.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/6077/2116950.pdf

Possum

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • Somerset
Re: Buying land
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 05:47:23 pm »
To some extent it depends on your planning authority, but most will not allow you to build a dwelling on this sort of land. I certainly wouldn't buy it unless it had (at least) outline planning permission for a house.

discodan

  • Joined Oct 2013
Re: Buying land
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 08:38:42 am »
Thanks for the advice guys. I am not intending to build on this land I want to  reside in the stable block that is there is it has already been transformed into an adequate living area although there is no residential permission.
Ideally I would have loved to erect some more stables and provide full or self livery which would also be a form of income but thought this would cause even more grief with the PP department. Once again I do not want to build other than erect some stables ( maybe mobile stables for the ease of planning permission  ;) )I just want to apply for change of use. Again im pretty sure planning has been refused in the past that is why I am trying to get some ideas of ways round it, or ways to improve my chances.

Many Thanks

si-mate

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Kent
Re: Buying land
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 10:35:20 am »
I believe if you live there for 4 years without being challenged you can apply for a certificate of lawful development.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: Buying land
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 10:59:19 am »
Thanks for the advice guys. I am not intending to build on this land I want to  reside in the stable block that is there is it has already been transformed into an adequate living area although there is no residential permission.
Ideally I would have loved to erect some more stables and provide full or self livery which would also be a form of income but thought this would cause even more grief with the PP department. Once again I do not want to build other than erect some stables ( maybe mobile stables for the ease of planning permission  ;) )I just want to apply for change of use. Again im pretty sure planning has been refused in the past that is why I am trying to get some ideas of ways round it, or ways to improve my chances.

Many Thanks
I'm pretty sure you will still need planning permission to live there.  It needs to be legally habitable or tptb will stop you living there.  You'll also need planning to erect any new buildings.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Buying land
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 11:43:08 am »
Thanks for the advice guys. I am not intending to build on this land I want to  reside in the stable block that is there is it has already been transformed into an adequate living area although there is no residential permission.
Ideally I would have loved to erect some more stables and provide full or self livery which would also be a form of income but thought this would cause even more grief with the PP department. Once again I do not want to build other than erect some stables ( maybe mobile stables for the ease of planning permission  ;) )I just want to apply for change of use. Again im pretty sure planning has been refused in the past that is why I am trying to get some ideas of ways round it, or ways to improve my chances.

Many Thanks
I'm pretty sure you will still need planning permission to live there.  It needs to be legally habitable or tptb will stop you living there.  You'll also need planning to erect any new buildings.


This is true, the use of the building determines what planning is required, so you would need planning to live in your stable block. In addition as has been said it would need works to make it legal to live in and those again would need PP and buildimg regulations consent.


Travellers try that trick quite often, building 'stable blocks' and then living in them so the authorities are pretty switched onto it!

discodan

  • Joined Oct 2013
Re: Buying land
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 08:32:29 am »
Yes I can understand why they can be very weary of any one wanting to do this but I just hoped that the fact that the stable block has been there so long and that it is already in a state in which I could live in it that it might stand some good ground as I brought it like this and not doing the conversions my self. I am very willing to play ball and am not going to want to build a 5 bedroom house or any thing just want to utilise what is already there. I want to improve the visual look of the land.... tidy etc.... there are other farms and dwellings down the road and I thought other than erecting some stables I wouldn't be changing the out lay and even if I did build some stable they would not be visible from the road or from any ones dwelling only open entry to the land. I only  want to improve what is already there. As I do not want to make any significant changes to the land or buildings already there I thought this may be a good case for them not to reject PP. I don't think it will just be possible to move in and try and live there for 4 years with out any one knowing as the entrance is in view of the house opposite.

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Buying land
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 10:17:15 am »
Yes I can understand why they can be very weary of any one wanting to do this but I just hoped that the fact that the stable block has been there so long and that it is already in a state in which I could live in it that it might stand some good ground as I brought it like this and not doing the conversions my self. I am very willing to play ball and am not going to want to build a 5 bedroom house or any thing just want to utilise what is already there. I want to improve the visual look of the land.... tidy etc.... there are other farms and dwellings down the road and I thought other than erecting some stables I wouldn't be changing the out lay and even if I did build some stable they would not be visible from the road or from any ones dwelling only open entry to the land. I only  want to improve what is already there. As I do not want to make any significant changes to the land or buildings already there I thought this may be a good case for them not to reject PP. I don't think it will just be possible to move in and try and live there for 4 years with out any one knowing as the entrance is in view of the house opposite.


Well if it is substantial and potentially habitable as it stands, it is worth apply for PP, what's not worth trying is doing it without PP as in the scenario you describe the planners would be very peed off and also it would it sounds be impossible to stay under the radar.


What would increase yr chances is if there are 5 other dwellings close to the site, making a cohesive settlement in planning terms, that makes it more likely they will be willing to add one more. Also if there are no road access issues, watercourse pollution concerns or flood risk. If you do apply big up all the positives environment, eg one standard thing is to set aside some as garden and specify 25% of garden as edible crops eg fruit trees and bushes, veg beds etc. also maximise drainage by using porous materials for landscaping eg gravel not concrete for parking and use sustainable materials eg untreated larch cladding for block work, rainwater harvesting etc. good drawings are essential but without spending 5k on architects fees, prob you would need to apply for outline PP only as otherwise the drawings wont be detailed enough for detailed.


If you do get permission you will usually have a further bill as the council will sting you for a bribe sorry community infrastructure contribution as it will count as a new property, before they will issue PP letter, can be anything from a few hundreds to a few thousand, and it goes to things like capacity at schools refuse and roads services (yes I thought that was what our council tax was for too :-()


Good luck with the application !

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: Buying land
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 11:07:02 am »
When I built my house it was under the cohesive group policy - only one new application/consent allowed in the 5 years planning period which is laid down by law, and only 20% of the current housing stock in that group - so if there are 5 houses already only one can be built in the five year period; if there are 10 it's 2 etc, but no part numbers are considered (eg 8 houses = 1.6 that is more than 1 but less than 2 - so doesn't allow 2 new builds ). (I think mine was in the period  1/1/05 to 31/12/10, so 1/1/11 to 31/12/15 is the current one.) 

During the time i was building, permission was also given for two barn conversions within the same cohesive group so they are looked on differently from new builds.(In Scotland anyway)  Yours MIGHT be considered a barn conversion so my advice is to find a planning consultant - even half an hour with one could save you a lot of anguish and money!
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

honeyend

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Buying land
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 10:40:43 pm »
It depends on how much aggravation you can stand. I know someone who has a large barn and stables with livestock and was living on the land in a touring caravan and wanted to upgrade to a static. She knows she would not get planning for a house and they turned down after several meetings the static. The PO eventually said why don't you just put it the barn. I know someone else who has been living in a static for years and put in planning for a house, they turned it down and now want him to remove the static. Not far from me a travelling family have just built  a lovely home with out planning over the summer, they have been told to stop building but I wait with bated breath to see what actually happens. We have just spent thousands on getting planning for a  replacement building, having to submit materials and comply with regulations.
 If I was you I would put water, electric and drainage to your stable and use them for 'storage' and buy the biggest tourer you can afford and wait for someone to ask and as someone has said ask a planning consultant for their opinion. I would also however annoyed you get with the PO and the 'rules' I would remain positive and helpful as if they take umbrage they seem to make things harder.
 

 

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