NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land  (Read 3987 times)

bluejules

  • Joined Nov 2012
Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« on: September 18, 2013, 09:11:18 pm »
We've been renting several fields and a barn for almost a year but as yet we have not been presented with any formal agreement documents outlining the conditions/protocols etc. Just wondering - is it normal/acceptable for the landowner to drive on to our rented fields in a tractor without telling us or discussing it with us first? It's happened a few times recently and I'm not sure how to tackle it; I would have thought that if we were paying to rent the fields it would be reasonable for the landowner to inform us before driving onto the land? (But maybe I'm wrong!)
Voss Electric Fence

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 10:26:51 pm »
If there's no written (and signed by both parties) agreement then you're on a bit of a sticky wicket.  Trouble I guess is rocking the boat by asking for one unless you word it very carefullly as to the 'why'. It would be beneficial to be clear on what and what is not acceptable for both you and your landlord.

bluejules

  • Joined Nov 2012
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 10:36:21 pm »
Is the oness on them or us to provide the agreement?
Hasn't really been an issue up until now. If I was renting a house I wouldn't want the landlord coming round without notice but perhaps it's different for renting land?

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2013, 10:34:01 am »
I'd also ask the question why - he cant just be driving over it for no reason (unless he is drunk and out on a spin)

If he is accessing another field or enroute - then I would think it was perfectly acceptable that he would not need permission to use access. to another field or services.

Even if you owned the field and he owned the one up - there would more than likely be something in the land deeds for agricultural access so the fields he is getting too are not landlocked.

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2013, 10:35:55 am »
Of course its polite to ask or inform the other party first - we have several field parcels that are only accessable accross our land - most have access in the deeds - but no-one will ever cross without first popping in for a chat out of politness.

bluejules

  • Joined Nov 2012
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2013, 11:22:10 am »
They're not getting to another field - we've got livestock in the field that he drives into but the tracks show that he seems to be just going in the field, driving up a short way and then turning round and coming back down the path again.
I'm guessing he sees this as 'his' land, but we are paying the going rate for renting so I would have thought that it was reasonable to expect a warning or something before he went up there. The tractor is making a bit of a mess of the path tbh...

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2013, 12:08:31 pm »
We rent some land out, in the agreement (supplied by the tenant) is the following -
The Licensors reserve to themselves, their agents and workmen and to all whom they may give permission a right of way over the land for the purpose of inspecting the same, weather with tractors, horses or any vehicle.
 
Actually we just left him to it, which I now regret as too late I realised he hadn't been keeping weeds down as per agreement, water outlet from trough had been blocked and running down the field, sheep had been knocking walls down etc, he gave the land up (in a huff) went I refered to the agreement, next time I will WALK round the fields to keep an eye on things.
 
Unless its a big area of land I can't see why he would take a tractor in.
maybe ask if you can put a padlock on gate for security?  put a feeder in the way of the access?
But best thing is to talk, which I didn't and regret.

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
    • Nantygroes
    • Facebook
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2013, 01:24:07 pm »
No reason why you cant just put padlock on gate .... to secure your animals....... if he asks.   
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
www.nantygroes.co.uk
Nantygroes  facebook page

Dougal

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Port O' Menteith, Stirlingshire
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2013, 04:03:42 pm »
If i was you I'd keep my mouth shut for a while! As the land laws state at present if you have be the occupier of the land for more than 12 months and the land lord has accepted payment (cashed the cheque in other words) you can have a claim to a pre 1991 tenacy . That means that you will have secure tenure for the rest of your life... as will your direct decendants!!! If this went to land court you would have a very good case, even if you didn't get a pre 91 agreement you'd get a 10 year LDT. Your landlord has significantly cocked up but you will need to play the waiting game to take full advantage. Worth reading up I think!
It's always worse for someone else, so get your moaning done before they start using up all the available symathy!

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2013, 05:57:23 pm »
 Don't think that's right Dougal, the 1991 act secure tenancy only applies to tenancies created pre 27 November 2003. Those created afterwards are only governed by the act and a secure tenancy created if it is specifically stated on the tenancy agreement that this is to be the case. There may still be an advantage in the paperless tenancy but at max it would be 1-5 year SLDT.

Details below...

http://www.gillespiemacandrew.co.uk/media/30506/lrb%20types%20of%20agricultural%20tenancy%20gm%202010.pdf


Dougal

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Port O' Menteith, Stirlingshire
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2013, 06:59:34 pm »
Most intersting! There would still be a strengthing of the 'Tenants' rights either way? From being a seasonal grazier to full tenacy? In this case it would undoubtably be a useful tool if the 'landlord' decided to get awkward. I have little doubt that the rules up here in Scotland will be a wee bit different to those in England. Different statues will have governed this area of law for a number of decades?
 
It's always worse for someone else, so get your moaning done before they start using up all the available symathy!

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2013, 10:59:59 pm »
HI
is this the land you were hoping to build a house on? How did the planning go?
If he's still a friend don't you ever have a chat where you could just bring the subject up and mention the path is getting a bit messy (though I think locking gate or just leaving something in the way would be easier)

ellied

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • Fife
    • Facebook
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2013, 04:45:39 pm »
I would wonder why he needed to go on - he might have a perfectly legitimate reason or simply be asserting his right of entry as owner.  If neither of you set up a written agreement then you're paying for use of the land in return for money but haven't specified what other use can be reasonably made - he could decide to fell a tree for firewood or given access to a contractor and be within his rights as far as I can see unless you've agreed otherwise.

I had 9 years continuous use of land and at the outset the landowner promised to refence, dig out a secondary access to water so I could subdivide, erect a handling area/hay storage area of some kind, roofed or not..  As soon as I was in that disappeared obviously - one year he thought I was undergrazing (I was but for a reason) and he decided it looked a mess and went in, cut the long grass, baled it weeds and all and left them to rot - I wasn't amused but not a thing I could do.  I later got 6 weeks notice to move out by 1 January just after taking redundancy, because he'd agreed to sell the land and knew I didn't have th cash to buy it myself - he'd told other tenants of his land I was going but not me!  Gutted but I didn't want to fight over it and it was the last day before I could get a lorry even close due to icy single track hill lanes, had to walk up and down the road with each pony, load it and head back up for another - the lorryowner could barely help as was awaiting a hip replacement tho he kept the loaded ones entertained til I got back.  I cried over it and miss having the space, it has made every winter since very hard, but I didn't have a written agreement and with or without the established tenancy (and I was in pre-2003) it was by then so badly fenced there were security issues arising, and it wouldn't have been beyond someone to make my life very difficult, not least as there was a large capital sum involved..

If you've not long been on the land, I would suggest very strongly that you go and ask without accusing, take it very gently, assuming you want to get an extension on your lease anyway..  Most farmers do things for some reason, whether we know or agree is another matter, but everyone deserves the right to explain.  Personally I think if you padlocked him off his own land, the average farmer would just take boltcutters to it and/or drive over the gate in said tractor, and you'd not have the lease very long..
Barleyfields Smallholding & Kirkcarrion Highland Ponies
https://www.facebook.com/kirkcarrionhighlands/
Ellie Douglas Therapist
https://www.facebook.com/Ellie-Douglas-Therapist-124792904635278/

Herdygirl

  • Joined Sep 2011
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2013, 08:59:43 pm »
[/quoteMost farmers do things for some reason, whether we know or agree is another matter, but everyone deserves the right to explain.  Personally I think if you padlocked him off his own land, the average farmer would just take boltcutters to it and/or drive over the gate in said tractor, and you'd not have the lease very long..

eliied is right and i would do the same
 
We have a lovely landlord, as long as we do what we say we will do.  He was very careful insisting that our tenancy agreement was for 364 days a year. After an aquaintance, ripped him off big style. we are very mindful that it's his land.we signed a 5 year agreement last year offered by him after 2 years. Landlord and his extended family are great, they help me check stock, recapture naughty shearlings and keep an eye generally, but he will point out our failings as well ina a friendly sort of 'getted sorted' kind of way  :)

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: Quick question for those of you that are paying to rent land
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2013, 10:21:26 pm »
Sounds like an undeclared earner in the owners back pocket.
 it could also be that he does not own the land and is trying to get it FOC after the set period of squatters right sort of thing by claiming he farms it , or it could be to prevent you trying to claim it off him if it is not registered land but that he has some sort of old deeds for .

 I think you can find details of who owns the area in question by going on the land registry's website and paying £20 ish + vat for a search so long as you can identify the plot of land on an old parish map ( all plots & parcels were numbered and the sheet will have a reference number for the sheet.
 Main libraries used to hold these older maps and searching used to be free .
 Or it could be that he is activating/reinforcing his right of way over the land .
 Tread warily .. perhaps make a joke of it all and say I've often wondered do you , " Ride the Marches to keep your rights or is there another reason " .
Then shut up and let him answer ..if no answer is forthcoming don't push it too far as you might lose the field . 
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

 

Trying to rent land

Started by Brijjy

Replies: 11
Views: 3904
Last post February 23, 2012, 08:55:27 pm
by Brijjy
Land rent

Started by Rosemary

Replies: 11
Views: 2774
Last post March 08, 2015, 09:22:49 am
by Rosemary
Putting a Caravan on land we rent

Started by Maxwell10

Replies: 37
Views: 28154
Last post September 02, 2016, 08:35:39 pm
by escapefromsuburbia
Bungalow for rent with land - aberdeenshire

Started by scarlettoara

Replies: 1
Views: 1178
Last post January 14, 2014, 07:53:31 pm
by LeanneR88
LAND WANTED TO RENT - APPROX 5 ACRES

Started by swavgav

Replies: 0
Views: 2956
Last post January 05, 2008, 08:11:23 pm
by swavgav

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Little Peckers

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2019. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS