[mab]

tried massage, and not yet provoked any emissions. she doesn't seem to like pressure underneath except right at the back when she appears to try to sit on my hands. massagin g the sides doesn't prompt any perceptible response.


having watched the other sheep closely I can now see what the wave should look like but am not seeing it on Estell.


she's salivating slightly - greyish drips on her chin.


been wondering about bloat or constipation and reading up a bit in my sheep diseases book, but am still guessing (and wondering where to find live yogurt - probably not at the 'local' shop).


she's due for her 2nd metacan jab tomorrow if she hangs on that long.


I've attached a couple of pics in case it looks like bloat to someone else

[Foobar]

Doesn't look like bloat to me.
I would get some antibiotics from the vet, either a long acting one or a course of jabs (3 days say).  Has the vet seen her?  And I think you are gonna have to pro actively/aggressively get food and fluids into her otherwise she'll just waste away and die pretty quickly.


Would it be worth considering liver fluke as a possible cause?

[mab]

no she's not been seen by a vet yet - the vet seemed to think it might not prove much unless we start on bloodtests, etc which would be expensive.

Would it be worth considering liver fluke as a possible cause?

I asked the vet that, (particularly as there haven't been given any fluke treatments/ preventatives - following vet advice at last worm count) but he though it unlikely.

[Foobar]

Ok, well I would defo ask for some antibiotics asap.  They aren't going to make her any worse that's for sure .

[mab]

hum..OK, (wonder if they're open tomorrow - I guess my out of date AB's are no good)

[shep53]

What colour are her gums they should be pink not grey, grey means aenemic with fluke or worms  or both  as no1 suspect . Is she standing with her head through the gate because you are behind her or did she do this of her own accord , is  her vision ok

[mab]

her gums, tongue & eyelids are black so can't tell 'colour'. I did try and look at other bits of her that aren't black, and, to my eye they don't look particularly aenemic (I looked up the symptoms in my book). Trouble is they're not bits of her I normally look at closely so I'm trying to compare with the other ewe who's got even less non-black bits.


She did put her head against the gate of her own accord, but put her head through when I was trying a massage. As far as I can tell her eyes are ok - she sees me coming and as I move around her eyeballs do follow my movements.



Actually, following foobars advice, I phoned the vets and luckily caught him before he left;  I raised the fluke issue again, and after some discussion of symptoms since our last talk he agreed that a fluke treatment might be a good next step (one that does mature and immature flukes? - and do both sheep as a precaution). Also, as she hasn't eaten significantly, tomorrows metacam is being replaced with a steroid (Estell's not destined for the butcher). I'll collect the meds tomorrow am.


On a positive note, she seems to be taking an interest in the rumen stimulant and took quite a lot this time, even coming to meet me for the next syringfull and sucking it out of the end, though I persuaded her to take another 1/5 cracker and she then walked away from the RS.

[Bramblecot]

I hope Estell pulls through  .  If she will swallow and take the rumen stimulant, how about some willow leaves/coarse mix/porridge whizzed in a blender and syringed into her?  A bit like soup for sheep.  Or is that just a daft suggestion ?  I am being serious .

[mab]

well I don't have a blender (or porridge, or coarse mix) but I could grind up some ewe nuts and mix 'em in (I've already been adding treacle). Not daft at all I don't think.


And mush some apple.

[Pedwardine]

I'm dreading reading this thread every day. Feel so much for you and Estell. She looks so miserable in your pics  . I do hope I never read the thing I'm anticipating. You're doing so well by her, I hope you get to the bottom of this and pull her through.

[mab]

I'm dreading coming out in the mornings but so far so good. 

Well she's still going, and still taking very small bits of food.


had a quick trip to the vets this am (took 2 hrs  [size=78%] -[/size][/size] stopped off for yogurt, diesel on the way back but seemed to have an exceptionally bad run of queues, tourists driving slowly, and old biddys having extended chats with their friends behind the till).[size=78%]

[/size]so this morning she's still standing / sitting and not keen on eating. I've just denched her for fluke, jabbed her with steroid and multivit (she really didn't like that), and got her to eat a couple of slivers of apple and a couple of syringes of RS.[size=78%]

[JulieWall]

I think she might either be a bit older than your estimate or have been going downhill for a while. the tell is in the photos, I can see the whole spine and the muscle wastage either side of it. Have a little feel of her muscles either side of the spine, if they are concave she is losing muscle mass and this is probably old age. Even without her teeth she should be able to cope with that nice long grass you've put her on, so if she is losing condition this may just be her time, it's nothing you are doing wrong . She looks as if she was a nice strong ewe in her time, nice long straight back, gentle face too.
All this tlc will make her feel loved but I wouldn't let her go through the winter that thin unless you have a place she can be out of the weather. They can be thin like that for a long time and still cope but if she won't eat perhaps that's just her choice to make at this stage? Loss of appetite sometimes accompanies senility, my granny stopped eating towards the end and she was just very old and a bit dottled It may be natures way?

[mab]

silly question: what proportions do you use for yoghurt, ginger, oil, bicarb, water? tried to search past posts but kept getting posts in the recipe section.


I made up some at random guessing I don't want huge amounts of ginger (it is strong tasting stuff),but when I put the bicarb in it foamed up when stirred and ended up too foamy for the syring. Dog ate that batch.


tried again with less bicarb, added last, and minimally stirred. Estell has that one and the one after.




Hi Julie,Mmm.. I'm not sure; I'm not certain of her age, true, but my gut feeling is that it's not that.


She certainly doesn't seem senile - she's very alert and (now she's had the steroid & vits) is giving me the runaround - and her loss of appetite was sudden.


don't worry about the winter - if she gets that far - they have shelters and in winter I put straw in for them.


PS. she produced a few'pellets' today (looked normal) following the jabs - still looking for the wave (not given up yet)

[SallyintNorth]

Yes, don't stir it with the bicarb in.  You can massage her flanks and belly once she's had it.  If that doesn't make her belch or fart I'd be wondering about a blockage.

I'm trying to remember what quantities I gave Tofffee.  I guess about 4 parts yoghurt to 1 part sunflower oil.  I gave him about 2 dessertspoons bicarb - but he was a 4-month old calf, so considerably bigger than your ewe.  Just a bit of ginger chopped up - enough that would give it a gingery flavour but not blow the back of your head off.

Toffee had about 1L per feed, three feeds per day, as far as I recall.

You'll have read that the bicarb made him belch; when the belching left off I poured more water into him which reactivated the bicarb.

I guessed quantities, like you. 

jaykay was one of the people whose information I had read up - if you feel you need a bit more guidance, I'd suggest sending her a PM and asking her advice.

Keeping my fingers  for you and Estelle.

[mab]

umm looking less optimistic now - her temp has go up to 41°C and her breathing is becoming laboured, and shes drooling.


just giving her water ATM.