[funkyfish]

Right, I may have done a stupid thing........
I know this Collie (working lines), through work. She was signed over to me as a pup, but within an hour the owners changed their minds so I let them have her back.


3 years later and after many many many behaviour consults with me and other very good behaviourists and trainers, the owners have decided to put her to sleep.


Her story- bought at 8 weeks off a farm. They got a collie for their teenage son (knowing he was going off to university at some point), they bought a collie as they don't have a lot of time to spend training a dog..


She bosses them around in the house, blocks door ways, guards the sofa, kitchen etc. She has major resource guarding issues- she bas bitten them multiple times and they have needed medical attention.


At agility training and at the vets she is fab, no problem to handle no bossiness, snapping, dodgy collie head dip or showing belly etc. She gives off good stressed body language before she goes for them, but they ignore/don't see it. They neck pin her for growling and so get bitten...


I think she has a lot of potential. In general she is not a snappy nervous dog, she is well socialised and has nice manors.
I have known her since 8 weeks and think PTS would be a waste.


I have recommended PTS for other dogs for being less aggressive and bitey, but she has no other issues appart form resource guarding (bowel, toys, sleeping places, stolen objects).


I'm going to see how she reacts to sheep (longline and muzzle!).


Would anyone consider her as a working dog?? Yes she has bitten, and that in in self- no matter what the circumcises warrants Put to sleep, BUT she has no exercise, stimulation, attention or affection. She is left for 6-10 hours a day and has no off lead time at the moment, except when going to training classed once a week.


Am I being too soft? ?

[Hevxxx99]

No.  Go for it.  Worst that can happen is the dog can't do the job and gets PTS further down the line, but you'll be giving her a chance and with stimulation and good handling she could easily be turned around and turn into a fab worker.

Would you keep her outside or in the house?  That might make a difference...

[shygirl]

its worth a go surely.
our old neighbours had a young collie, he was never ever walked. he used to escape into my garden and start fighting all the time and then bite my livestock. he was spoilt and rude but when we had him for the weekend as the owners went away (with loads of free exercise and strict discipline) he never put a foot wrong, as soon as his owner got home, within 2 mins he was biting livestock etc.
was such a shame why people get collies as pets and just dont realise what they have.

[fiestyredhead331]

oh and don't I know all about that scenario 

Sometimes it's hard to know what to do for the best but speak to 'sheepdog' she's been a big help to me and my collie situation

[HelenVF]

I would say your mind is nearly made up Agree with the others, give her a chance if you feel you can manage and have got the time.

Helen

[funkyfish]

Thanks guys!!


if she were any other dog I'd not hesitate to PTS, as the risk of a dog biting again, or being passed around is just too high. But I Don't think she would behave like she does with anyone else...


Well I'm having her for the weekend to assess, and will see how she is in the house (taking extra precautions of course) and see what she thinks of the live stock. IF she goes ok and I find a place for her- if that place, for any reason does not work out then its off to rainbow bridge for her.


I'm also aware taht she may be fine with me but once settled in after a few months may start trying it on...

[HelenVF]

Good luck! Let us know how she gets on. She is one very lucky girl

Helen

[feldar]

Go for it .
 I have one very similar to her but she bites only men, women she doesn't have an issue with. She is kept in the passageway between house and garage and has a boy collie for company he has been castrated. They both see my husband who is in and out all day ( she nevers bites him! Alpha male i think) and he can touch and fuss them.
But i always cage her when the grandkids are around and they know not to go near her, i just can't risk her biting them.
So that's how we go on, we manage her and she has a good life. she is walked twice a day and taken up the farm to do a bit of sheep work, but she will never be the family dog we really wanted. But we got her, so feel responsible for her and we feel we must give her as good a life as possible.
If she ever becomes uncontrollable or she does hurt someone i will have her pts no question about it.

[Alistair]

Possibly sounds a bit counter intuitive for the dogs well being but I'd be tempted to lay off the agility classes (unless they compete)

If you do agility with a dog (in my experience anyway and I've been doing it for a bit) you do allow them to let their passage from a calm state to an excited state to speed up quite considerably, so you can expect them to be more excitable generally, my current dog is blindingly fast, amazingly eager and very well trained, however I just accept that I have inadvertantly taught her to switch from calm to nutcase in a split second, when she is in nutcase mode I have to yell all commands so she obeys, in normal state a whisper will do.

I'd be tempted to try with sheep, maybe keep the sheep in a round pen and introduce her on the outside at first,

[plumseverywhere]

It sounds to me like this dog would be getting the perfect chance at a new life, one that could be good for her. Going from a home that really has wrecked her (poor dog) to one that can actually 'think dog' and allow her to live as her breed intended.
Good luck - let us know how it all goes please 

[suziequeue]

I am not a dog expert but don't Collies need work to keep them occupied?


We have sheep but have to use other means to round them up as we just wouldn't have enough work to give a collie and he/she would get bored.


Best if luck to you. Sound like she just needs a bit of work and stimulation and somebody taking an interest in her. A bit like kids really 

[in the hills]

Hope it works for you.


If I am honest I wouldn't take on a dog with that history but undoubtedly there are success stories and that would be great.


Behaviour is probably well established now. Owners may not be perfect but none of us are .... they have been bothered enough to realize the problem and try for quite a while to seek help. A farmers wife that I know has had similar problems with a collie. She no longer lives on a farm but has owned and worked collies all her life. She has had to let her collie go to a big farm where it will live an outdoor life. It was well stimulated, trained and exercised to a high level. Talking to her she knew as well as anyone how to handle collies and feels a complete failure. She could not stop the resource guarding and was afraid that her children would get bitten as the behaviour was getting worse.


You are very experienced and know what you are taking on (presumably you don't have children around) ....... Good luck. 

[Bramblecot]

Good luck .  She just needs somone very patient and experienced with working dogs, particularly collies.  But keep her well away from any children. 

[colliewobbles]

Good luck, brilliant thing you are trying and I wish you the very best with her.  She sounds like a frustrated but very clever dog to me who needs something to do.  Clearly she is happy when she has her agility to occupy her.

Keep us updated xx

[Moobli]

Would you consider keeping her yourself if she fitted in with your lifestyle?


I think it certainly sounds like this dog is bored and frustrated but, as has been said earlier, the behaviour (resource guarding etc) could be ingrained into her now and so will need plenty of work on your part to change.  However, it could be that with a little time, patience, proper exercise and firm boundaries set down that she could become a useful working dog.


I don't know many sheepdog folks down in Devon, but there is David Kennard who may help you assess the dog, if you felt you needed a second opinion.  He is busy with the English National over the weekend, but it might be worth giving him a call after that. 


His details can be found here
http://www.boroughfarm.co.uk/contact-us/


Good luck.  I do believe this poor dog deserves a second chance, so please let us know how you get on.