[Moobli]

oh and don't I know all about that scenario 

Sometimes it's hard to know what to do for the best but speak to 'sheepdog' she's been a big help to me and my collie situation

Glad I have been of some help.  Have you heard anything back about assessing Blue yet?  I will keep 

[funkyfish]

hi everyone and thanks for the comments!


I've had her over night to assess, and she hasn't put a foot wrong..


After speaking at length with the owners- it now turns out that at home she wears a shock collar and they zap her when she eyes or growls at them... They have problems getting her in the house- she goes for them at the front door, and when they try and get her out of the car... Well I can see why now if they shock her! at home they can only have one person in the room at a time as she will heard/nip them all the time... At my house she was fine with 3 people and 4 other dogs (all known to her form agility training and brought in one by one).


She did join my agility class for a few months, the dog learned the basics very quickly- despite the owners... They struggle to follow simple instructions like- do not throw the toy, place it on the ground in front of the jump- sot hey throw it and so wind her up into a chase game, she then doesn't let go of the toy, they grab at her and get bitten. I place the toys (making it low value) she takes it I then swap it for a treat/another toy.


Ok so she hasn't gone through new dog syndrome yet (once they settle in even up to a year later they start pushing the boundaries). But I find her to be a very cringy submissive girl with a sharp streak (like most Collie bitches..).


I think in a normal home situation with doggy people who can read body language so they can see when she is getting stressed, she would be no problem..


they want her back at the end of the week and have her homed from there, but she needs to destress before being rehomed.


If I didn't have 3 other dogs and live in a first floor (large) flat in a town, I'd have her in a heart beat, she would be fab dog the smallholding and bikejoring etc that we do.

[funkyfish]

Umm just reread my post- pls forgive the typos and grammar.. 

[fiestyredhead331]

oh and don't I know all about that scenario 

Sometimes it's hard to know what to do for the best but speak to 'sheepdog' she's been a big help to me and my collie situation

Glad I have been of some help.  Have you heard anything back about assessing Blue yet?  I will keep 

Blue is getting assessed on Tuesday by local guy and he reckons if he's fit to train he'll have no bother finding him a suitable home 

[funkyfish]

Well sadly she has no interest in sheep- not even to play with them 


I had problems getting her in the car (a Renault Kangoo with big cages in it)- she gave very stressed body language but did get in for a treat, then she turned in to a snarling monster! Poor dog, she was so stressed- stress panting as fast as she could then lunging at the cage door attacking it, then giving calming signals. I could have cried for her- I imagine that they shock her at that point- she must to so scared of being scared!


All she was saying was I'm not coping give me space- she did nip me, and I mean barely touched the skin, compared to the extreme level of aggressive display she was giving, I should have by rights been mauled, but she doesn't want to be naughty. Poor poor dog. 


There is only one place for her now- Rainbow bridge. If I had no other dogs and could dedicate several months to her and keep her I would, but half arsing with her training (IF she could learn to calm down, when in that state I don't think she can learn as she is so stressed). Acting out tjat level of aggression everytime she is stressed/scared or has conflicting emotions is just not on, she could redirect her frustrations on any passerby/child/other dog etc. Every time I breaked or turned a corner she stared again, she obviously is terrified in the car, and their house as we have had no problems here and they have massive problems just getting her in the house!


If a person had treated their child like they have treated her they would have been done for abuse. But they have only followed the advice of 'trainers' and 'behaviourists' with no training or qualifications and now she is emotionally damaged beyond repair.   This is why all trainer and behaviourists should have to be accredited, its coming but not soon enough!

[doganjo]

I feel so sad for her, and for you - you have done far more than I would have done.  I'd have told the owners to have her put down straight away and given them a  lecture; but I am a gundog owner, not a sheepdog owner and I realise they are different. 
Mine are a vary basic working gundog breed, nothing like retrievers or spaniels and can be turned into problem dogs with bad handling too.  I do know a number of people who use e-collars but mainly for stopping them hunting too far rather than anything else.,

Sad day for the poor dog.   Run free of fear when you cross that bridge, girlie.

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think you are doing the right thing but gutted that it has come to this for the dog and gutted for you that you are the one who is having the do the difficult thing.


Having just taken on two collies myself, I am feeling very fortunate, and very grateful to their previous owner, because they are really delightful bitches and while keen to work at least once a day,  appear happy with normal fun and games and walks the rest of the time (as long as there's lots of both!).

[in the hills]

So, so sorry. 


You did your very best. Some dogs need very careful handling. My father trains gundogs and would never use these collars ..... far more harm than good can be done in most cases. He always said that if he had to resort to those he would give up. Used wrongly on a highly strung and sensitive dog, they must be disastrous.


You did more than I would have done and did your all .... almost impossible I would guess from your original and follow up descriptions. She sounds as though she could be a danger.


 

[colliewobbles]

   Sorry it's come to this - those collars are vicious and this is the sort of situation they cause.  About time they were banned.

[doganjo]

I'm not sure I'd ban them - they do have their uses - stopping sheep chasers for instance.

But I am more and more thinking there should be a test to be allowed to own a dog, and that all dogs should be licensed.

ALL breeders should be licensed too,(misalliances and one offs could be retrospective) and have to make an annual return on pups they've sold and any other information received of previously bred dogs.  A simple database that the police could access needn't be expensive and if the licence money was ring fenced it would be self financing.

[happygolucky]

So sad and yes, a lot of children are brought up like that but nothing is done. I hate people buying dogs or pups on a whim, the hard thing is sorting the good from the bad....you used to have to have dog licences, not sure why that was stopped, in fact now it could be easier to monitor, a bit like car MOT's, but, any one who wants to go under the law radar can and will.
 

[doganjo]

Radar could be really low - all dogs MUST carry a tag with ID number from the database, any loose dog found without tag, taken in, owner contacted and dog euthanased in 3 days. 

[HelenVF]

Oh, I'm so sorry it didn't work out.  The poor girl.  What a truly horrible start to life and no wonder she is like she is.

So sorry, you really did your best.

Helen

[SallyintNorth]

I am actually too upset about this story to be able to write coherently at the moment.

Poor.  Little.  Dog.   

Most anyone can ruin most any dog with bad training.

Take a dog with a brain the speed of a collie, people who can't understand and follow the most basic of dog training rules, give them a collar and a shocker...

Poor.   Little.   Dog.   

[jaykay]

I'm so glad you tried, but in fact it's such a horrible, sad story, I actually think she's better off out of it. Poor love  And bloody owners