[goosepimple]

Just a point on many of the posts here:
 
I am living in scottish borders where I wasn't brought up but my OH was, we moved out of Edinburgh 6 years ago.  I've found it very difficult to settle here and although we have a really wonderful place here, it's not home and I don't ever think it will be.  I could leave it tomorrow. My family (siblings only) are scattered so there is no base (no parents).
 
So what is 'home'?  I think most people look to 'click'.  I think if you move abroad (which I love the idea of) if you could do it with extended family then there is more chance of you being satisfied with your life and putting up with the cultural differences perhaps and eventually the notion of it being a long holiday would disappear but who knows.
 
Some people are home birds, some like globe trotting and the excitement of new turf.  It can depend on your age / time of life I think too.

[Lesley Silvester]

My son is getting married next month and he and his fiancee have been living in southern France in a holiday house  belonging to her parents. Their work takes them all over the world and, before they met, they always went back to parents between jobs and for breaks but they want their own place now, understandably. They have decided to settle in France. They are looking at houses in the £5000 price range so they don't need a mortgage. It seems incredible that you can buy a house for that price. It will be one that needs work doing on it but they can do a lot of that themselves as and when. Having made the decision, they then went on a month-long French speaking course which was very intensive and tiring but has given them a working knowledge of the language. It should also help them fit in better.

[southernskye]

Herself and I considered several other countries before we moved a few hundred yards down the road......
Germany as I have been working there for getting on towards 9 years.
France because I worked there for several years and we often holiday there.
Sweden, yup, guessed it, I worked there for 18 months.
(I've spent 80% of my life since leaving University working around the world).
 
However, Germany is just too regulated. think the UK laws are stringent then have a read around a forum called ToyTown Germany and have your eyes opened. things like being unable to wash cars at home (although a number do in rural areas) or cut your grass after (IIRC) 7pm, my friend wants to extend his patio but needs permission from local Govt as it will then leave a smaller area of grass than is designated in law, same where he wants to extend his 4 foot high fence.
 
it's a great place in many respects but, once you start to delve, it can drive you nuts .
 
France appears similarly regulated and, in smallholding terms, the cotisations (spelling??) seem to be finacially restrictive.
 
In the end our "Positives and negatives" list made us realise that we had all we wanted where we were, Skye. OK, the weather and midges can be a pain, literally at times, and we have no boulangerie. but all the other things, the village life, the sense of community, the "belonging" and being left alone to get on with life. They are all here. In fact all the north and West Highlands seem to be like that (others such as L&M have more expreince of the East).
 
We will continue to holiday in France and may even retire there but, for living, the Highlands is the place to be. What the heck, might even open a boulangerie myself    !
 
However, good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Rgds
Sskye
 

[john and helen]

I think home is a mind set... your upbringing, friends, family....each and everyone of us id different
I was born in Devon and have returned... my children all live in hampshire..


we are ready to move again..wales looks like the likely destination
I believe , you get out what you put in... not always easy for everyone..and i don't mean that in a bad way

as the song says..where ever i lay may hat, thats my home

[Ina]

However, Germany is just too regulated. think the UK laws are stringent then have a read around a forum called ToyTown Germany and have your eyes opened. things like being unable to wash cars at home (although a number do in rural areas) or cut your grass after (IIRC) 7pm, my friend wants to extend his patio but needs permission from local Govt as it will then leave a smaller area of grass than is designated in law, same where he wants to extend his 4 foot high fence.

Most of these regulations have an environmental background - and yes, Germany is miles ahead of the UK in that respect. They are very well aware of what sealing the ground does to promote floods, for example, which is why you can't simply extend the sealed area of your property - and that includes patios and tarmac on your driveway. I think this is the right way to go - unlike here, where you can just put your entire property under concrete, if you like - and then everybody complains about flooded towns...

The same with no lawn mowing (or other loud noise) at certain times of the day. That is to protect you and your family from being kept awake (kids in Germany seem to go to bed earlier). I still don't feel right getting the lawnmower out at lunchtime, or on Sundays. These rules are not just for the point of having rules, they are for everybody's well being. I think it's absolutely bloody brilliant that most shops are closed on Sundays, for example... Here, it's stress 24/7, with no let-up! Unless you are lucky and live in the country with no near neighbours.

(Just to give you a different perspective. Think of some of the Western Isles, for example. No ferries on Sunday and nothing else, either - apart from church. It's nothing like as bad in Germany!)

[downtoearth]

I've moved around Scotland quite a bit. The place I felt least welcome was the Borders.  they are very suspicious!! Hangover from the Border raids.  The Highlands has it all I think, lots to do good schooling etc weather can be dodgy but just dress for it.  Think I would miss here after a fortnight abroad!!

[HesterF]

So what is 'home'?  I think most people look to 'click'.  I think if you move abroad (which I love the idea of) if you could do it with extended family then there is more chance of you being satisfied with your life and putting up with the cultural differences perhaps and eventually the notion of it being a long holiday would disappear but who knows.

Really not sure about this. If you can't feel at home an hour or two from where you were brought up, living somewhere that the culture is similar and the language the same, why would it make it easier when everything is different? Many of my friends are married to locals, speak the language fluently and are 'abroad' for life but they all miss home to some extent.Then it's really tough because you know you'll never live at 'home' again. And most people do have a notion of where home is.

Having been brought up in one small town and lived there for eighteen years, I've since moved eight times (six to different parts of the UK and two abroad). I see a strong differentiation between moving within the UK and moving abroad. I still have a quiet inward chuckle to myself when friends here tell me how hard it was to move down to Kent from London. Yes it's different but you can walk into the shop and ask for help, you can join local groups and chat away freely, you can chat to your neighbours, you know how everything works - the health system, the education system, the social security, the post, the telephone, the banks, how to pay bills etc.etc. Every single one of those things is different when you move abroad and you can't even ask how they work if you don't speak the language. We were also lucky to have friendly neighbours who would help out with translating until we got fluent enough to cope and without that it's very easy to drown.

Clearly this part of it is only the first year or two - there does come a time when you know how things work (although the Swiss tax system to still eluding me now) and you start to get to know people. A lot depends on how social and confident you are too - you have to put yourself out there, risk making mistakes in the language and bounce back from knock-backs.

But there is still the longer term thing that it's just not what you're used to. Some people are prepared to live with it for the sake of the better lifestyle - be it a better income or just a better quality of life. Some people have to live with it because they're married to a local and for whatever reason, it wouldn't work the other way round. So it's always a balance if you choose to move abroad for the lifestyle and I guess you don't know until you try it how you'll really feel.  I've never expected to 'click' anywhere - I know it takes time to make genuine friends and feel settled wherever you move - but in both our foreign moves we have got to the point of having lots of lovely friends and feeling a proper part of the community but still not feeling that it's 'home'. After a year back in the UK, I feel properly settled and like I could live here forever.

I think a holiday cottage it a good idea - you can get an idea of how things work locally (and an insight into the bureaucracy) without having thrown everything in the UK away.

H

[Ina]

So what is 'home'?  I think most people look to 'click'.  I think if you move abroad (which I love the idea of) if you could do it with extended family then there is more chance of you being satisfied with your life and putting up with the cultural differences perhaps and eventually the notion of it being a long holiday would disappear but who knows.

Really not sure about this. If you can't feel at home an hour or two from where you were brought up, living somewhere that the culture is similar and the language the same, why would it make it easier when everything is different? Many of my friends are married to locals, speak the language fluently and are 'abroad' for life but they all miss home to some extent.Then it's really tough because you know you'll never live at 'home' again. And most people do have a notion of where home is.

I've never felt at home anywhere - not even in my parents' house. But that's a personal thing. Not that I like it...

[southernskye]

Morning Ina,
 
Totally agree with you Re: DE and some of the laws. Re-cycling here is also miles ahead. Pfand on the bottles (which we had in the UK when I was a child....then it vanished!). It was really to point out that that, when moving to another place, especially overseas, there needs to be a lot of research done in order to make sure you know what awaits.
 
Here on Skye there is a generally held view that Sunday is quiet, even though we are not a Wee Free Hot-Bed . I'll do a little quiet work on a Sunday but power tools etc. are a no no. We are not religious or church go-ers but many are and do not work on Sundays. It is nice that Sunday is still a special and quiet day.
 
Do like the Germans though. I will be leaving a tiny wee piece of me here.....or, perhaps, bring a bit of DE with me.
 
Rgds
Sskye

[Ina]

I think there often is a lack of understanding why things are different in other countries. That you can only get by learning the language to a high degree, by delving into the history (and not just the bl**dy war!), and by asking around before criticising.

[goosepimple]

Ina, I wasn't saying that it would be easier abroad, it's just that home is where the heart is and that is usually with your loved ones, it's bonding people look for.

[Ina]

Ina, I wasn't saying that it would be easier abroad, it's just that home is where the heart is and that is usually with your loved ones, it's bonding people look for.

Yep, you are right - well, my "loved ones" are not in this country and are increasingly becoming unloved anyway, so just as well they are far away...

Right, I'd better stop right here! 

[Laurieston]

Regulation: 

As pointed out there is indeed a lot of regulation here in Germany, certainly more than in the UK; right down to responsibility to keep the pavement in front of your house swept of snow.  This means that a lot of things that might be, or might have been considered 'good neighbourliness', are now legislated for/against.  (Such as not poisoning your neighbour's ground water with your carwashing chemicals).  Maybe such regulation is not required in the UK today, and there is now such a consideration shown to the communities in which people live, that all these good neighbourlinesses (sp?) are common practice.  Maybe pigs fly too.

I am not saying that in Germany voluntary good-neighbourliness is much better than in the UK, but with the backing of leglslation it gets a higher profile and is easier to enforce.

As ever it seems a shame that we (and that probably includes me) are too selfcentred to really support and cherish community.

[OhLaLa]

I'd advise anyone considering moving to France to rent for a while first and keep ownership of a UK property. Don't expect to live a 'British' life in France. It's a very different culture.
 
Yes, property is cheaper, but generally speaking most other things are much more expensive (white goods, or Artisans for example).
 
Two essential things required: a healthy bank account, and a good knowledge of the language.
 

[Ina]

I am not saying that in Germany voluntary good-neighbourliness is much better than in the UK, but with the backing of leglslation it gets a higher profile and is easier to enforce.

As ever it seems a shame that we (and that probably includes me) are too selfcentred to really support and cherish community.

You are right. Most of what is regulated in Germany is simply common sense - and is aimed against selfishness.

Here in Scotland, in many areas nobody clears the snow off the footpaths, for example. Result? Lots of people, especially the elderly, are prisoners of their homes in winter. For the council, it's always more important to keep the streets ice free. Ordinary folk who can't afford cars - well, they can stay at home, can't they?