[thenovice]

Sadly, I find myself becoming more and more annoyed and frustrated about living in Blighty. Where have common sense, consideration and thoughtfulness gone? I never thought I would say it, but im being drawn toward France and the relaxed, peaceful way of life. Of course I may be looking through rose tinted glasses, so I wondered what your experiences were as ex pats? Wouldn't move for a few years until the kids are older, and might buy a wreck and restore before making the big move    (that's if I can save any pennies , which I doubt, but one can dream!)

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think the main problem with doing it is the lack of employment opportunities in some of the rural areas, plus the high taxes if you work above board. Other than that I think many people would do the same! My parents have lived there for many years and have an enviably lovely time!


I came to NE Scotland to find peace and courtesy, and found both :-))) but the weather isn't so good as France....

[goosepimple]

I'm with you novice.  Think a lot of people will feel that way this year, last time we had a good summer was when we left Edinburgh in 2006, rubbish since.
 
MAC doesn't work I'm sure, but he may not come on just now he's on holiday in Cambridge by the look of the posts.
 
Tell us all ex-pats, warts and all please.

[Laurieston]

Does Germany count?

We moved to rural North Germany nearly 4 years ago, with 3 children.  My wife is German, so that helped a lot, but for me it a mixed thing. 

On some sides it is wonderful - We have a home, garden and land that we'd never be able to afford in the UK.  We have made super friends and feel very welcomed into the neighbourhood, being invited to all wedding anniversaries, birthdays etc. etc..  The sense of community is much stronger than I experienced as an adult in England (much more akin to the villagelife of my childhood).  Our children can now identify the over 50 species of birds we get in the garden, in both English and German.  My 6 yr old complained that her toy lamb has the wrong number of teats, as we now live/work with real sheep.  Excellent freshly baked bakery breakfast bread culture.  Steiner schools are state supported.  Last Christmas was +10 degrees.

On the other side it is hard - living in a foreign language makes life shallower, particularly if you are not really fluent (like me).  I miss(understand) a lot of what goes on around me and cannot express and share my emotional world.  When I make word jokes people correct my error instead of laughing.  Employment - very hard to get the same kind of salary/position I had due to qualifications not being recognised.  Bureaucracy (maybe better in France, but here OMG!).  No PG Tips!!!  Embarrassed that my children correct my German.  Often being nearly run down due to looking the 'wrong' way on crossing the road.  This Easterday was -2 degrees with snow.

On the third side (not sure if good or bad).  The bank closes for 1hr 30 for lunch.  Half day closing. Many shops do not accept credit cards. Everyone knows/observes what the 'foreigners' are doing. 

Overall it has been a move that has given us a much better life.  It has come with a deep cost for me, as the least flexible, most English of our family.  I have no sense of history or politics here, no sense of social culture.  These are deep losses for me.

Maybe the/an answer is to try it out for a few years. 

[thenovice]

Thankyou for your candid reply. 100% with you on the PG tips (work on the building), nothing worse than grey washing up water tea, you got to be able to stand the spoon in it! Trouble is, I love this country, but the people living here are ruining it. Never thought of Germany, and I do speak a bit of the language. I expect property isn't as cheap as france?

[john and helen]

France is a beautiful country ..and the only way to mix in is with the french..but!!! they do have as many rules and regs as we do....

[Laurieston]

Hello Novice,

We watched a number of programmes some years ago, maybe 10 yrs now, strange how fast it goes, called "Living the Dream" which encouraged us.

Prices.  Well it depends very much on where you end up.  From a value point of view we swapped our 3 bed semi in fairly central Gloucester (okay but not quite Cheltenham you know) for a 4 bed, barn, pigsty, huge triple garage, total 7000m3. 

www.bluehomes.com can give an idea, and some nice dreams.

We were very motivated by a poem accredited to a guy called Goethe called "Begin it now".

Good luck.

[mab]

I seriously considered france; even more seriously considered slovenia (made two trip to look at property and even got as far as bidding on one.


I've ended up in wales but then I managed to save enough to find a place here.


If I were looking overseas now I would consider Ireland (Irish prices were high when I was looking at Slovenia, but I understand they've dropped a lot since the crash), as there's less of a language barrier (and I'm guessing less regulation than france - though I could be wrong).

[HesterF]

It may not be as relevant but we returned to the UK last year after spending nine years abroad - 4 years in Sweden and 5 in Switzerland. Not smallholding, just living. But my thoughts are much the same as Laurieston. We are both British and I don't think I'd have ever felt truly at home in either. In Sweden I worked and made a serious effort to learn Swedish but I never spoke much better than a five year old. It takes a long time to get to the point of being able to express yourself as well as you can in your mother tongue (even those who are 'fluent' find that). Plus you don't have the cultural grounding and that takes even longer to get familiar with  - for me with young children it was all sorts of child related things (how do the playgroups work, songs, nursery rhymes, even things like Santa Claus are all different). People just assume you know how things work because they don't realise it's done differently elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, we had a lovely time but it was much like being on holiday for years - I never got into anything deeply enough for it to become meaningful - and after a while you yearn for something deeper.

As an adult without children, I think it would be even tougher to integrate and you'd probably naturally be drawn to other expats (from wherever). At least with children, you meet other parents through school or whatever and you have a point of commonality.

It is also tough being away from family and friends. Who will take care of aged relatives? Are you prepared to make the effort required to keep up with friends?

You need to look further than the price of houses and land and the utopian vision, imho,

H

[Ina]

I always find it very interesting to see why people leave the UK.... After all, there are so many of us foreigners coming here to live, and I think most of us are not economic migrants! I'm pretty sure I'd be better off (financially) if I'd stayed in Germany. Whenever I go back - not very frequently - I find that everything, from food to rents and public transport, is cheaper (while wages are roughly the same), you are considered a human being with the right to survive on the road if you cycle, and you seem to have more rights as an employee and a tenant, too. They even seem to treat the unemployed fairly decently (not like here, where you are made to feel like scum), and you get proper help to get back to work, not just a load of words and hassle. Goodness knows why I am still here...

I also spent some time in France, admittedly in the late 80s, so not a recent experience. Less regulations? You must be joking... I worked on a goat farm with dairy - we had environmental health inspections every two weeks. I would never want to live there, simply because I'd never be able to speak the language fluently. And yes, you do have to do that if you want to feel at home, and not be a life-long expat. I've spent more than a third of my life speaking English, and for whatever reason have always felt more at home in my chosen language. (And still make mistakes - but then I realise that a lot of indigenous folk make even more mistakes...) My theory is that there are so many people wanting to move to the UK because English is the first (often only) language they learn at school - that's not their fault, that's a hangover from "the Empire". If I hadn't learned English from the age of 9, I might have ended up somewhere else.

So anyway - my advice to all who want to move to a different country - learn the language first, and not just how to order a pint of beer. And make sure you understand the dialect in whatever part of the country you are intending to move to.

[Clarebelle]

I have been thinking more and more about escaping the way this country is becoming, but then I wonder if it is truly better elsewhere? I don't know. But I think if we were ever to move abroad it would be somewhere like Australia where the culture is similar and there is no language barrier.

My Dad works for a french rail freight company and for a while commuted to France from London everyday but a year ago he bought a house outside of Calais. Its not a smallholding, but it is rural. He loves it there, loves the little village, the peace and quiet and he has made quite a few English friends! He has made an effort to learn fluent french and i think he is pretty adept now and I'm sure this makes a big difference. Although I am always surprised at how well people speak english in the EU, not that this should be an excuse not to learn the language but it makes me a bit ashamed of my poor attempts at french and german at school!

[lachlanandmarcus]

My parents now have pretty good French for everything day to day, however they do find it very useful that Mums best friend is a Parisian lady who married an Englishman, as she can be deployed in situations where Mum and Dad are suspecting they are being ripped off or can't understand something. Like most Parisians she is a lovely charming lady but can be very steely with officialdom or dodgy tradesmen!


So that would be my recommendation, find yourself a Sophie!!


(she is lovely too, she always refers to me as the Babeee Girrrrrrllll' as I'm the younger of two children. :-))))

[john and helen]

We had wonderful neighbours.. they where a gay couple , one was English and the other french...
you could not have wished for better......they helped us with the language and sorting things out like water, electricity etc etc

every time we returned from england..they would always ask us to bring some cheddar cheese and baked beans 

they are now buying my place....

it is a fantastic country.... but we would have struggled if it wasn't for the lads

[nic99]

First chance we get, we are off to New Zealand. The only thing holding us back is my fiancé works as a consultant engineer in the oil industry so spends a lot of time in Aberdeen and Norway. NZ don't really do oil. Awfully long commute........ But if Scotland becomes independent we will be off like a shot regardless, before the country collapses.

[shygirl]

we have been seriously considering moving to france recently. i lived in australia for 3 yrs and lived in germany and ireland as a child and as i have no extended family we have nothing to hold us to any particular area or country.
after researching the schooling i have decided its best to just buy a holiday home in france with a thought to moving there when the kids have left home. this is due to the fact 2 of my older children are 10 and 14 and i cant afford to pay for private eduaction and neither speak much french. also one child gets extra tuition at school due to dyslexia and apparently france isnt so flexible with situations as this. - (this is what i have found out by researching on-line anyway)
with a view to moving there at one point, we have all started leaning french. try the website
www.busuu.com (it is excellent) and i intend to start french gcse shortly.
currently we live in scotland which is beautiful but as i moved countries alot as a kid, i feel like i dont actually have a "home".
i find england used to drive me mad with all the overcrowding and expensive house prices and i cant see myself ever moving back there.
i like the idea of moving to southern france so italy and spain are closer to explore. but i get a lot less for my money than in scotland there, coastal propertys are out of the question - budget wise.

has anyone bought a holiday home in france? and who do they get to manage it when renting it out to 3rd partys ie cleaning /handing over?