[doganjo]

Strongly built, short coupled, very active; broad in skull, broad and deep through chest and ribs; broad and strong over loins and hindquarters. Chest of good width and depth, with well-sprung barrel ribs. Level topline. Loins wide, short coupled and strong.

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/display.aspx?id=2048

This dog was exactly what it says above - he is broad not fat.  Believe me there was very little spare fat on him.  You weren't there, I was. Opinions should be based on hard fact.

Here is Belle with her rosettes.  Thanks, Bionic!

[lachlanandmarcus]

I am guided by you in the subjects of whether it meets the breed standard and how fat it actually is.


But im afraid not on matters of aesthetics, that is something based on perception of what pleases the eye which is always subjective. I am allowed to have an opinion and to say I think it looks awful, even if it is the epitome of the breed standard and all bone and muscle and no fat. You are entitled to say it looks lovely!!


IMO it looks awful, and we shall agree to disagree on that

[happygolucky]

Breed standards are one thing and personal choice another, good job we do not have breed standards for choosing a partner
I loved Romeo, but if you do not like the look of something, no amount of saying thats how they should be would pursuade anyone, well not me, after all, there are a lot of people that do not like fat humans either but I am fine with that as I am one!

[SallyintNorth]

BH loved him, I'm with the "he looked fat (though he obviously wouldn't have been) and people will think it's ok for their pet labs to look like that" brigade, I'm afraid.

Do remember, though, that they say the TV camera adds half-a-stone to a person; presumeably it has a similar effect on dogs, and we who saw him only on the telly won't have seen him as Annie saw him.

I have mixed feelings about the "dual purpose / keeping the show dogs" working issue.

On the one hand, I hate to see pet-ified dogs in the ring who couldn't do a day's work if they tried - but the fact is, a true working dog in the average pet home is an overweight, overfed, hyped up, under-exercised, head case.   IMO. 

[sabrina]

I was so disgusted when I saw the German Shepherd that I gave up watching Crufts. Well done Annie on doing so well. You must be very proud. 

[happygolucky]

Sabrina, I thought the German Shepherd was too low at the back and potential hip problems went through my mind!!
I also cannot remember the breed with the dreadlocks, to me it looked like it could not go for proper dog walks unless Shaun like a sheep, its tail dragged and all those locks must have weighed a ton, I used to have a few dred locked friends in Leics, they told me how heavy they were, also a work college had one of the same breeds, like Dougal from The Magic Roundabout? I did not catch or hear the name and not sure if it is the ones I google!!!

[in the hills]

SITN - My father has true working labs from probably the most well known/ successful line of working labs in this country. When he had more dogs they were part outdoor/part house dogs but now he only has 2 they are kept as house dogs. No problems. Many of the gamekeepers etc that he knows also kept working retrievers/ spaniels as house dogs. I suppose any dog, working or not, can get fat or develop problems if fed incorrectly or not exercised. Can only speak of gundogs though as no direct experience of other "working" breeds.


When it comes to whether many of the gundogs are truly dual purpose I think it depends on your definition of "working" and your expectations. When I said flatties are dual purpose it was a bit  . Look at the breeds winning A.V. field trials and you will see which breed is capable of reaching very high standards. Of course there are exceptions but in general it is the working lab. When I picked up my flattie the breeder said she also worked them and could show me what they could do. She was mainly into showing but worked in order that she could fully qualify them as champions. Oh dear  .


My father had some success in A.V trials with flatties but eventually moved to the good old working lab.


Okay now I'm going to .

[Alistair]

Sabrina, I thought the German Shepherd was too low at the back and potential hip problems went through my mind!!
I also cannot remember the breed with the dreadlocks, to me it looked like it could not go for proper dog walks unless Shaun like a sheep, its tail dragged and all those locks must have weighed a ton, I used to have a few dred locked friends in Leics, they told me how heavy they were, also a work college had one of the same breeds, like Dougal from The Magic Roundabout? I did not catch or hear the name and not sure if it is the ones I google!!!

Hungarian puli & pomadore like I said before are the dreadlocked dogs, puli's are amazing dogs they are also herding dogs & do well in agility, pomadores are the bigger ones and I know little about them.

[happygolucky]

in the hills, my Labs would love to work more   a friend is making a special effort to train my Chocolate Lab as there are not many used in the gun dog world, mainly as chocolate ones have a bad reputation as there are less of them so not so much choice re breeding, she has a lot of show labs in her pedigree but is or could be brilliant gun dog, no messing, no nonsense just fetch and bring it to your hand, just got to get her working on jumping over or under things, my Yellow one is fantastic but she is a bit fussy about carrying things too far, its funny as she lets my chocoate lab carry stuff then takes it off her, my older Lab is from great working stock but not trained at all, she will retrieve but never really has been trained. We have some wonderful help from a very well known trainer/breeder who loves our pups, so much so that he actualy sold 2 of our pupsto friends of his, one is now a pampered posh pet the other works in St Andrews or will do and his owner is a Billionaire, I have met his game keeper but thats the only contact but hope to get some good photos as he is a cracker of a dog!! I think our dogs are good all rounders, but they would go stir crazy if they did not get enough stimulus unlike me!!

[happygolucky]

  yup a Puli, thanks, thats been playing on my mind, with them you cannot tell which end until you feed them!!!

[SallyintNorth]

SITN - My father has true working labs from probably the most well known/ successful line of working labs in this country. When he had more dogs they were part outdoor/part house dogs but now he only has 2 they are kept as house dogs. No problems. Many of the gamekeepers etc that he knows also kept working retrievers/ spaniels as house dogs. I suppose any dog, working or not, can get fat or develop problems if fed incorrectly or not exercised. Can only speak of gundogs though as no direct experience of other "working" breeds.

ith, homes with gamekeepers / huntin' shootin' fish' types aren't what I meant - not "average pet homes" at all!

It's the everyday working family, who "like to have a pet dog, it's good for the kids", but don't realise how much stimulation and how little food (especially high protein "working dog" food) their usually under-exercised pooch needs.

Like all generalisations, it's wrong in a lot of cases (and I know there are lots of really good owners who do keep their dogs active, stimulated and trim) but as a generalisation, homes on a housing estate with inexperienced owners are not the most suitable for working breeds.  IMO.

[happygolucky]

homes on a housing estate with inexperienced owners are not the most suitable for working breeds.  IMO.

Certainly where a lot of bad behaviors develop when sold to people with no or little knowledge of the breeds, especially with the more difficult to look after high end working dogs. I was so saddened to see a beautiful lab just being let out to go for his own walk, that's the attitude some people have, they want a nice looking dog like any of us would but without the responsibility.
As with anything, fashions in dogs etc can be bought on a whim like a car without knowing what you are letting yourself in for, that's the reason I chose a Lab and not am keen on having another terrier, they are too much for ME to handle, there are lots of dog breeds I love but know they are not for me!!
I often smile at dog threads as like some others on here, I worked all my working life with problem families who could not look after thier children, shame there is not so much passion about children!!

[sabrina]

For sale in my local gumtree last week, poodle cross collie jack russell puppies. £600. Soon be no pure bred dogs if this keeps up. 

[in the hills]

 


I don't understand the trend for these crosses but they seem really popular. My mum spotted someone advertising for a lab. x collie puppy ie. looking for one.  Maybe there are plus points for them.   

[SallyintNorth]

I don't understand the trend for these crosses but they seem really popular. My mum spotted someone advertising for a lab. x collie puppy ie. looking for one.  Maybe there are plus points for them.   

Hybrid vigour and a whole lot less snobbery.

I know that crossing two breeds doesn't guarantee no inherited defects but as a generalisation it is likely to reduce the probability and/or severity, especially if the two breeds have different inherited problems. 

And whilst crossing two breeds could result in an individual with the temperament quirks of both parents, it often gives the better of the two halves.

I had a lab x collie, and knew another, and both were good eaters and 'good do-ers', loyal, fantastic with children, energetic but not hyper, and clever.  Both chased sheep, of course, but so long as the owner doesn't live in sheep country (neither of us did at the time), that can be managed!    Both had the lab double coat, which was a bit of a downer.  (Intentional pun - couldn't resist  )