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Author Topic: importing pigs  (Read 10085 times)

Hilarysmum

  • Joined Oct 2007
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2009, 05:47:19 pm »
Odd how the bloodline thing works out, over here Glen is the most common tamworth bloodline fast followed by Jasper.  Here everyone wants Rufus and Royal Standard.

Tullywood Farm

  • Guest
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2009, 06:33:36 pm »
80 euros for a registered weaner is a good price, we are very lucky to get 50e, even allowing for the fact that we have newly imported bloodlines (thanks to a dear friend).   We are often quoted that they can get factory throw outs for 20 euros. 

Hello - Thankyou for your welcome - nice to meet nice people and you seem very helpful all the time.
It is dreadful that they compare "Factory Throwouts" to Tamworths, no wonder Tamworths are an endangered breed. 

People have to make sure that a fair price is got for rare breed outdoor pigs. 

Some Hobby farmers who are both receiving substantial salaries, can afford to sell pigs cheaper, as can the large factories too, but at the end of the day some of us have taken the risk, packed in our salaries, moved to the Countryside for a peaceful existence, and tried to make a difference for rare breed animals, by creating a demand ( in our case by Educating people, Offering Pig Keeping Courses, Sausage Making Courses, and also visiting schools and doing work with the Zoo etc.)

We do not eat our Tamworths, we prefer to sell them to smallholders who are wanting to keep them because they are endangered, originally Irish, or to breed and get the numbers up as we do. 

We keep Saddlebacks and Gloucestershire Old Spots for the meat, but I would agree that if you just want Bacon and Ham, the Tamworth is much better tasting, although if pork I find all the breeds as good.

I really think you deserve more than 50 euros, and hope you may be able to educate a few people over there - if I get enquiries haggling the price down, and generally being more careful about the money than the pig and where its come from and possibly going (Extinct that is) - then I just put them down as timewasters, and go to the next serious enquiry.

I know this is not easy when you have pigs to feed, and no income, and the money is needed, but, I am sure there are going to be better, more educated people soon - I am certainly happy with the progress we are making, on a small scale, in the little Emerald Isle.

Julie


smithy1949

  • Joined Jul 2009
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2009, 10:30:45 pm »
Hello Julie,

I note your point about giving up jobs to farm full time. However if it were not for the many many hobby farmers out there rare breeds in general would be a very bleak place. As for pricing it all depends on what you wish to achieve. Some hobby farmers are happy just to break even so that they can carry on their hobby and help rare breeds. Others such as yourselves choose to earn a living through rare breeds, personally either way is acceptable providing the animals are paramount. Having read the previous posts I cannot see if looking for quality stock what difference it makes whether the animals are bought in Eire, Nortern Ireland, England, Scotland or Wales, I would often visit the continent in pursuit of my dairying activities. At the end of the day so long as the buyer is happy with the stock, it's condition, the environment in which it is raised (personally I hate seeing any animal cooped up indoors on a large or small scale) and the price then all should be OK.

I take it that the BPA holds pedigree records for pigs - if that's the case then anyone looking to buy pedigree stock should do their research here first, see the breeding histories and contact any buyers of stock from the breeder to obtain impartial advice/recommendations. I found when buying in cattle I would always return to people who were more than willing to discuss your requirements in detail and send you in the direction of someone who could help if they couldn't.


Regards

Tony

 

Tullywood Farm

  • Guest
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2009, 10:12:56 am »
Hi Tony,

I totally agree with everything you say here - but I cannot see the point of someone who knows several breeders in the South to say,  send an enquiry to a farm in the North, or UK.

Since we have been selling rare breeds, there is at least 40 more hobby farmers in the South whom we have sold pigs to, and probably more than 40 that are now happily true smallholders making a living all over Ireland.  Most of these people have become good friends over time, and we regularly visit to view new piglets and discuss their antics over coffee, which can lead to benefits for all in other areas of smallholding, swapping ideas, stock and hens and eggs etc.

The BPA is a good place to start. For Meat and Pigs.

In our experience some people phone up, and start knocking down and bartering the price without even getting of their ar*e and driving 30 miles to view how the pigs live, what the breeders are like, and get to know them, and view the stock, discussing bloodlines etc.

These people drive down the true price that should be achieved for all the work that has gone into buying your stock, choosing good sows, going through all the pregnancy and weaning with them, and then trying to sell them to Good Homes.


I was only using hobby farmers and factories as a comparison of what may have driven the price down in France for rare breed pigs.  Its the driving down of the price that is the problem here.  Just like Lidl and Tesco have done with the end product.  We cannot devalue rare breeds to the price of factory farmed pigs, and breeders need to be aware of this.

Kind regards
Julie

Lizmar

  • Joined Apr 2009
  • Carrick on Suir - Tipperary Ireland
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2009, 01:55:55 pm »
I have found this really interesting as a novice who has just got their head around to the idea of chickens!!  Would love to think about pigs, but only have just over half an acre of field and a stable that is bozwonk at the moment.  Never really thought about the 'politics' of keeping animals, but this has really opened my eyes.  I agree that to keep rare breeds going you should ensure they are well kept in all senses of the word and then think of their cost.  I live down in the south east of Ireland and don't think I have seen a pig anywhere, its all sheep and cattle!  So you never know, when I get the confidence pigs may be my next move - yes hobby, but hey to keep rare animals going everyone needs to do something, even if only a little.

sausagesandcash

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • UK
    • IrishHandcraft
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2009, 02:50:33 pm »
I cannot see the point of someone who knows several breeders in the South to say,  send an enquiry to a farm in the North, or UK.

As the bloodlines in Ireland are so restricted (remember your little missal on line breeding?), how can you not understand when someone wants to expand the bloodlines available? In order to do that, surely it is incumbent on all of us, truly interested in the future of the breed, to search as far afield as necessary for fresh blood. We may only look after family and close friends, but we'd still much rather serve up unrelated pedigree pigs, than banjo playing cross eyed ones, thus our willingness to search far and wide.

Tullywood Farm

  • Guest
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2009, 03:03:38 pm »
Morgan

I understand perfectly well, and here I am pointing to you, who made an enquiry on stock we ere importing, got a second price, all on the phone, assumed that they were the same bloodline ( which they were not) haven't even bothered to become a BPA member, and have the audacity to tell everyone that I am expensive therefore attacking my liveliehood.

Get a hold man, your so bl**dy negative and downright silly.

Tullywood

CarraghsBorderCollies

  • Joined Jun 2009
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2009, 06:27:13 pm »
hi tullywood, i guess im kind of a neighbour (i live in castlerea!) do you have any spaces left on your poultry course, i think its on the 30th? im also looking for a couple more hens as i only have 1 hen laying (must be RIR size or bigger) do you have any for sale?
x gem x


p.s sorry for hijacking this thread! :chook:
GEM. X

sausagesandcash

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • UK
    • IrishHandcraft
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2009, 07:28:12 pm »
We ordered two Lucky Lass weaners, and told you that they were to be a Christmas present for our older boys. You promised faithfully that they would be weaned in the week before Christmas. I went out of my way to make sure that you understood that we need them for Christmas. On the week before Christmas you told us that the only piglets you had available wouldn't be weaned until late January. You let us down, and worse than that you let two little boys down. Now that might not have cost you a thought, but I saw the hurt that was caused.

I had thought at our first, of many, contacts with each other that €115 was a pricey for a rare breed, but not knowing any different, I didn't broach my feelings with you. Looking back on it, €90 for unregistered and €115 for registered means you were charging €25 for B.P.A registration. €25 for registration papers, c'mon who's trying to fool who?

It was only after you let us down so badly, that I searched further afield, and had the great pleasure of meeting 'Gavo' a.k.a Gavin Goodman of MacNean Farm. I found him to be truly passionate about matters porcine. He went to the trouble of letting us know when the litters were born, gave us an eight week weaning date, and worked around our schedule to arrange a collection date. We have only bought two pigs off him, but the help and advice that he has so willingly offered has been invaluable. As I said to you before, he is a well respected member of this forum, and with good cause. As I understand it he is also heavily involved in the RBST, and quite frankly, it shows. Big thanks also to all the other members of this forum who were incredibly helpful from the very beginning of our little piggie adventure, and our local Dept. of Agriculture Inspector, all of whom have helped ensure that our pigs are a happy healthy bunch.

Now you might not like what I have written in this forum, but the truth hurts. If you don't like it then maybe you should change your business practices. Personally, I don't really care, as in that week before Christmas I swore that I would never, ever, do business with you.

I have contacts with three other Tamworth breeders in the South of Ireland, and they all charge €80 (pedigree registered). I think that's a fair price. You accuse me of attacking your 'liveliehood' (sic), but I'm merely expressing my opinion. You that values democracy so much, should recognise that we do not, in fact, live in a dictatorship, thus the right to free speach.

I think that the nature of your posts, the content, and your inferences speak for themselves.

Regards,

Morgan


smithy1949

  • Joined Jul 2009
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2009, 10:16:41 pm »
Hello,

Certainly much banter here ! Reading into all this it's certainly clear that reputation is paramount. In my field (dairy cattle) this was achieved by good stock, a good choice of bloodlines and excellent customer service. If you get these right you get plenty of recommendations other than your own.
This subject seems to have an underlying theme of denigrating "sausagesandcash", "gavo" and others outside of your control. Perhaps you need to take stock of how you approach a seemingly competitive market.

By the way, is there some history to all this ? It certainly seems more in-depth than is shown on this internet forum. Anyway keep it up - it certainly beats the telly !

Regards

Tony


gavo

  • Joined Aug 2008
  • Belcoo, Enniskillen, N.Ireland
  • Crazy Pig Lover
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2009, 10:54:42 pm »
Hello,

Is it safe to pop my head above the parapet yet ? I didn't realise that suggesting a breeder (and a very successful one at that) would cause such a heated thread. BTW back when we introduced ourselves last year we only said that we had the largest pedigree herd of Tamworths in N.I. just by way of explaining what keeps us busy. We're happy with what we do and how we do it.

Cheers


Gavin

Tullywood Farm

  • Guest
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2009, 11:54:58 pm »
I cannot see the point of someone who knows several breeders in the South to say,  send an enquiry to a farm in the North, or UK.

As the bloodlines in Ireland are so restricted (remember your little missal on line breeding?), how can you not understand when someone wants to expand the bloodlines available? In order to do that, surely it is incumbent on all of us, truly interested in the future of the breed, to search as far afield as necessary for fresh blood. We may only look after family and close friends, but we'd still much rather serve up unrelated pedigree pigs, than banjo playing cross eyed ones, thus our willingness to search far and wide.

I wholeheartedly agree with you dear Morgan, But if I remember rightly:-

1.  The original enquiry was for a Gloucestershire Old Spot Boar.

2.  I answered the enquiry introducing what we do.

3.you shot it down accusing me of SHOUTING  and went on to say that we were expensive.
- sorry, but as a specialist in Typesetting and Desk Top Publishing systems in the 1980's, using caps was not classed as shouting then!!! 

We have two GOS Boar Bloodlines and several other breeders in the South have GOS Boars too , as these are not as restricted in the South as the Tamworth Breed.

sausagesandcash

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • UK
    • IrishHandcraft
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2009, 08:49:26 am »
That's why I pm'd the nice man with a list of GOS breeders, North and South of the border. The border is, after all only an imaginary line. 

Regards,

Morgan

Tullywood Farm

  • Guest
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2009, 09:11:05 am »
That's why I pm'd the nice man with a list of GOS breeders, North and South of the border. The border is, after all only an imaginary line. 

Regards,

Morgan

Is it? 
So therefore you do not have to Import from one Country to Another on paper?
Do not need a vet to sign said papers before you bring animals across an imaginary line? 
Do not have to fill in different transportation documents for pig movement?
Do not have a different department in The South issuing pig herd numbers to the Government system in the North because the line is only imaginery?

My God, I have paid hundreds of pounds sterling in Vets fees in the past seven years to bring pigs across a line that is just in my imagination?

Kind regards

Julie

Tullywood Farm

  • Guest
Re: importing pigs
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2009, 09:56:55 am »
We ordered two Lucky Lass weaners, and told

Sorry for the delay in replying to this one, my computer crashed last night.

Hope you all found something worth watching on T.V.

I never received an order from you Morgan,
I received several enquiries about several pigs, when I came back to you to further the enquiries I was told that you had already bought a boar locally, and that you were going to source other stock from the UK with a friend.

If we take an order for weaners, we ask for it in writing, to confirm that an order is firm, and then we request a deposit to hold the piglets in your name until they are old enough to leave the sow.

I never received an order or a deposit from you.

I have on my system an email from you dated 15th December 2008 at 19.00 hrs asking about weaners, and asking what bloodlines they were and what was the bloodlines of their father.

This is 10 days before Christmas, that you raised this question.  No order had been placed.

As a newcomer to pigs, all I can assume is that you had just purchased the boar from elsewhere
and it had occurred to you ten days before Christmas that it may be important to ask about the bloodlines of the girls that you were enquiring about.

You admit yourself on the previous page of this forum, that you "searched extensively for unrelated stock"

You basically made enquiries without commitment to several breeders, and sat on the fence, bartering down the price, and asking questions, ten days before you expected to produce these piglets on your farm for the boys.

I am sorry if your boys were upset at christmas, I have a little girl and I know what that feels like.

I am really sorry that you truly believe that I am the person to blame for this, as I never received an order or deposit for any piglets. 

When you have livestock, you also have deadstock, and these pigs are not rare breeds for no reason.  I have no birth notified tamworths with the BPA since the 9th of May 2008 as far as I believe.

A Tamworth did lose her litter in December, this does happen. 

It is pointless me going on any further - a misunderstanding took place in December 2008.  You have learned a lot about pigs since then.

I wish you well Morgan,  I hope you have lots of little piglets in the future, and I hope you get the best price for any you wish to sell.

By the way, a lady in the North charged me 20 sterling for pedigrees, the exchange rate at that time would make it 25 euros.  I did quote that to you, yes, it is a lot, and others do it too. 

Buying a pig is not like buying a car, with a car Ford can have a r.r.p,  I wish they were a guideline somewhere for the price of stock - maybe they should be a Glass's Guide to Pigs -

Again, Apologies for any misunderstandings.

Julie

 

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