Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: single payment scheme: advice please  (Read 15271 times)

hafod

  • Joined Jan 2013
single payment scheme: advice please
« on: February 04, 2013, 04:51:31 pm »
Hi, Our small holding is 12 acres. We purchased it last year without any SFP entitlements.
I'm wondering about registering for SFP and would like advice on
1) how to go about it
2) whether it's worth it

1) We have a CRN and CPH number and i have been told by our regional office (we live in Wales) that all I have to do now is go out and buy entitlements. I know you can buyer entitlements from land agents etc but is it really just  that easy??? I presume I have to buy Welsh entitlements but there seem to be differnet entitlements for SDA, non-SDA etc. How do I find out what my land is to start off with??

2) So unless anyone has a Crystal ball, I think the future of CAP and therefore SFP payments is still up in the air?? Any advice on whether purchasing entitlements would be worth it at this stage would be welcome. I have read elsewhere on this forum that if you held entitlements in 2011 this was a sort of 'golden ticket'. Is that still the case, have I missed the boat?

Sorry for the long post. I have spent some time googling this but would like some straight forward advice.

Thanks muchly  :)

Bramblecot

  • Joined Jul 2008
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 09:19:23 am »
Sorry no-one has come back to you with advice.  We do not have any SFP entitlements on our land either but a neighbour has told me you can buy them through an agent.  I have no idea about costs or what you might get in return payments :dunce: .

Anyone any ideas please :wave: ?

Factotum

  • Joined Jun 2012
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 12:18:54 pm »
http://www.jonespeckover.com/sfp.asp

This firm sells entitlements - why not give them a call to see what they an do


Sue

waveneygnome

  • Joined Dec 2012
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 05:26:41 pm »
Hi Bramblecote

I was in a similar position to you, see the following thread and somewhere there is info about the SFP:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=29778.0

As to the economics of it/is it worth the hassle, I'll post more tonight when I get a chance.


waveneygnome

  • Joined Dec 2012
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 09:29:00 pm »
O.K.  now for the numbers.

You can buy entitlements from many local chartered surveyors - however many have a minimum fixed fee for their service, on top of the actual price you have to pay the seller.  In my area, (East Anglia) all the local agents could lay there hands on entitlements, but the prices they quoted were far higher than I could find online (see 2 examples below)

www.townsendcharteredsurveyors.co.uk
www.entitlementtrading.info

If you want any advice, then both these firms gave excellent information.

Entitlements really are simple to buy:  you call an agent, tell them how many you need, they check their database of sellers, match you up, they give you an indicative price, you make an offer, they liase with seller, you agree a price, they send you paperwork, you fill in & pay......simples.

SDA = Severely Disadvantaged area (i.e. upland farmers)......could be you in Wales?
Non-SDA = non Severely Disadvantaged area (normal producing land)

The price of entitlements does fluctuate, but not so wildley that if you are only buying for 12 acres it won't make too much difference. 

SDA = £185 -200 per hectare  + VAT
Non SDA = £210 -£230 per hectare  +VAT

If you are not VAT registered (and therefore can't claim back the VAT) than you can buy them from non VATable sellers - these tend to go for more money:

SDA = £200 -220 per hectare
Non SDA = £225 -£240 per hectare

So I'll assume you are non-SDA land: 12 acres = 4.85 hectares, you'll need to buy 4.85 entitlements x say £230 = £1115....................................so you have forked out this much, just to buy the right to make a claim via the Single Farm Payment system.

What am I going to get back?

Once you've got the entitlements, you have to make a claim each year to the Rural Payment Agency (15th May this year).  Once your claim is lodged, you have to wait until November to receive payment.

What you get paid fluctuates each year (as its set by EU), and we are at the mercy of the exchange rates as its set in Euros.

for 2011/12 year, it was:

SDA = £207.72 per hectare
Non-SDA = £258.50 per hectare

(there is a little tricky thing called 'modulation' whereby they take some (circa 14%) of this payment back off you - but I believe that all payments under 5000 euros are exempt from this)

i.e. you should receive back in the region of:

4.85 x £258.50 = £1253.73 per year

Effectively, in your first year of claiming, you should just about breakeven.

But in the second (and subsequent) years of claiming, you will be quids in!

HOWEVER

The current payment arrangements were all meant to change in 2012, but due to ongoing discussions in the EU, this has been delayed until Jan 2015.  There is speculation that this may be delayed further....but no-one knows for sure.

No-one also knows for sure what shape or form the new system will take either.

What is for sure is that if you bought entitlements NOW, you would at least be able to claim 2 years worth of payments.

i.e.   in your instance payout £1115.....get back circa £2500.

There is a lot of paperwork to plough through............is it worth it for £1385 extra...........

My own view was that:

a)  I'd apply as it was a good learning curve, and gives me a new topic of conversation with some farming friends
b)  It at least pays for itself this year
b)  It increases my 'return' on my investment in the land
c)  There is a small chance that the scheme continues for another year (i.e. 3 yrs of claiming)
d)  No one knows what the new system will look like, and I wanted to be 'in the club', just in case it makes me eligible for the new scheme (or rather not receiving payments now could exclude me from any new scheme)

Hope this helps.



 







 

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2013, 08:39:48 am »
Boy does that help wavenygnome - MANY thanks!  We are in axactly same boat (with the added interest that a neighbour is claiming on our land fraudulantly - cant wait top see the fireworks when we get the letter! 
 
In addition to above, I have been told there are different levels of payment (and assocaited purchase price..... I was quated last week...
 
Income/Ha                                Purchase price/Ha (all plus VAT and modulation, no mention sdl)
 
100                                           100
180                                           250/260
250                                           400
400                                           1000
 
 
so on those figs it was looking more like a 2 year payback - but given that they havnt got sorted yet we are going for it.... you gotta be in it to win it (perhaps qualify for future schemes?)
 
We have been advised that the new scheme may be a single level scheme and best guess is that it will be pitched at the 180 mark, so may be no point buying the dearer ones.
 
Other piece of advice - register with your rural payments office (wales) and submit a SAF form anyway even if no entitlements- its gets you in the loop and sorts out any nonsense (I THINK if we had done this from the start we would have been able to get half of the SFP being claimed on our land (IAX paper?)).  Good luck, I'm just phoning around for VAT free ones at mo.  They need to be bought by end of March to count.

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 09:31:29 am »
How do you know if your land already has SFP entitlements?  We bought our two acres last year when a local farmer was selling off 3 or 4 sub 7 acre plots.  We bought ours primarily for the old smallholding house & barn and didn't think to ask about SFP entitlements at the time.  As it was part of a ~350 acre farm that definitely claims SFP, will these entitlements stay with the land or the previous owner/farmer?

To be honest I didn't think it would have been worthwhile...but this thread, in conjunction with talking with my Aunt (who also has a smallholding) it sounds like it would be worthwhile...just about!

Also, what do I need in terms of CPH, SBI numbers etc etc?  Again, would these have been transferred with the land or specific to the farmer?  Hoping to get rebuilding this year (so probably will just be used for hay or silage) and then moving in and sheep the following year.  Been focussed on the building and planning processes so far, but starting to think beyond now...lots more to learn!!

Many thanks to the original poster and the contributors of this thread - very useful!!

« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 10:00:13 am by Oly »

hafod

  • Joined Jan 2013
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 08:30:39 am »
Some really good info on here - thank you so much - it's all becoming clearer :thumbsup:

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 08:31:06 pm »
It's also worthwhile noting for anyone else reading this, single farm payment has a minimum area of 1 hectare (2.47 acres)

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 10:24:39 pm »
Bought mine today  :)   went for 202 Euro ones - so that cost £180/Ha (£216 inc VAT) and will return £150/ Ha (less 'modulation - which seems to be a Euro tax depending on how much you are getting, at smallholder level it is predicted to be 5-6-%).  Just hope it all goes through smoothly (6 week conveyance) in time for SAF form :fc: :fc: :fc: .  Its a complete minefield, but feel happy to have placed the bet!!  We have 11.5 claimable acres (ie registered as GR2 grazing land)

hafod

  • Joined Jan 2013
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2013, 04:47:20 pm »
Hi FiB  :fc: for you.
you say yours is registered as GR2 grazing land. How did you find this out? Could you PM me with which broker you used?
Thanks
H

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2013, 05:05:41 pm »
I phoned the Rral Payments office (Department of the Welsh assembly) in Dolgellau and they will tell you what your fields have been previously regestered as (use) if they have. You have to speak to them anyway to let them know that you want to complete a SAF, so that they will send you one. I phoned our 2 local auctions (Dolgellau and Ruthin) for prices - and bought direct from Ruthin over the phone.  GIve me a PM if you want to talk anything through over the phone.  They both had a range of entitlement values all at different buy values - I did a spread sheet to try and guess 1 2 and 3 yr return and Ruthins seemed miles cheaper - so only hoping i havnt got something really wrong!  Good luck, wish I had done this 2 years ago. 

hafod

  • Joined Jan 2013
Re: single payment scheme: advice please
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2013, 07:01:19 pm »
Thank you - I have a week off work next week- think I'm going to be busy!

 

Production entrant basic payment scheme.

Started by Builth

Replies: 8
Views: 3294
Last post December 26, 2014, 09:23:48 am
by Builth
Single Farm Payment.

Started by SirDoolb

Replies: 15
Views: 6263
Last post February 18, 2014, 08:13:03 pm
by Marches Farmer
Single farm payment

Started by TracyC

Replies: 18
Views: 3745
Last post January 11, 2017, 08:33:04 pm
by TracyC
Single Payment Entitlements.... Yawn!

Started by LadyEarth

Replies: 4
Views: 2469
Last post June 05, 2013, 08:44:02 pm
by Crofterloon
Basic Rural Payment

Started by cambee

Replies: 9
Views: 945
Last post May 05, 2019, 11:48:28 pm
by SallyintNorth

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2020. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS