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Author Topic: Kitchener stitch - latest socks  (Read 14130 times)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2013, 09:19:41 am »
Ina, the toe-up socks with hourglass heel I make - being the basic pattern from the Twisted Sisters Sock Workbook - does allow you to drop out heel or toe and reknit.  I haven't done it yet, but the book explains how to unpick one row, hold the rest of the sock there on dpns, and then knit away from the dpns.  In the case of the heel this is then just like adding an afterthought heel, and you join it in using Kitchener stitch when you reach the other side.  With the toe you either knit a toe-down new toe, or if you want all the stitches to line up then you'd knit a new toe from the tip and graft it in using Kitchener stitch.

So far I haven't given any of my socks enough wear to need to replace either toe or heel - and nor, amazingly, have I yet needed to repair BH's first pair, which has been a big and very nice surprise, as he wears them pretty much all the time he's off the farm - but I would be interested to know how you reinforce your heels, Ina?  I love wearing my homemade socks so much I do want to use them for everyday use about the farm, and for sure the heels will then take more of a pounding, as you say. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2013, 09:23:33 am »
(In fact I'm knitting my two-layer opening mitts with built-in hand-and-wrist warmers at the mo, with 8 dpns on the go, 4 on each layer!  :D  Actually, about to start the thumb, so another 4 there makes 12!!  I look like I'm making a porcupine! :D )
Now you are just bragging  :-J :innocent:  some of us are lucky to be managing 4 dpns
Sally
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

Ina

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Aberdeenshire
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2013, 10:26:21 am »
but I would be interested to know how you reinforce your heels, Ina? 

Argh - I'm really bad at explaining knitting in English terms...  ??? But will try to find something on  the net that does them the way I do.

Your explanation for the toe up makes sense. A lot of grafting, though... I think I'd be too lazy to do that! Always takes me very little time to knit something - and can then take ages to do the last 6 stitches of grafting... So I think maybe I'd better stick with my different coloured toes.  ;D (My personal signature...)

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2013, 10:31:46 am »
No grafting at all in a standard toe-up sock.

Do you do slipstitch to reinforce the heels? You could still do that toe-up.

Yeh, I wouldn't want to try to explain knitting things in German either  :D

I like the idea of different coloured toes  ;D

Ina

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Aberdeenshire
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2013, 10:56:44 am »
coatscrafts.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/361AD56B-CEB4-4191-9219-2296CE58552C/74378/Howtoknitsocks.pdf

Right. That's basically how I do it - although in this there's no reinforcement. (It's  German yarn - which is probably why it's most similar to what I do! And of course they use 5 needles, which I find makes it a lot easier to see what's going on - and you can try them on as you go.) Please note: the photo doesn't actually show socks knitted according to the instructions! (Stupid, that.)

For the heel flap, I just double up the yarn. For the heel itself, I knit front row: 1 knit, I slipped with yarn behind the stitch - repeat. Return row all purl. Next front row you start with the slip, etc.

Does that make sense? ???

I have sometimes doubled up for the toe bit, too, but I find with my particular foot shape, the holes often appear further up the foot at the side (I have very wide feet, and that seems to be where there's most friction in the boot). So it's not really worth it reinforcing the actual toe.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2013, 11:29:40 am »
Yes, I obviously explained that really badly - sorry.  No grafting in the original sock, grafting only when replacing toes or heels.

Your technique for reinforcing heels would work exactly the same in the hourglass heel, Ina - the heel itself is knitted to and fro, with the front of the ankle held in a stitch holder or piece of yarn until the heel is completed, then just carry on knitting in the round and up the leg.  I may decide to have a go at that reinforced heel myself...

BH's first pair that surprisingly haven't worn at all yet were in a 75% acryllic/25% wool for the body, and I did the toes and heels in 15% alpaca/85% wool as I hoped it would be sharder-wearing.  So far so good! :)

(My own socks are all 100% natural fibres, I don't get on with man-made fibre.)

I too love the idea of the multi-coloured toes - I have already decided that I'm not bothered about pairing socks and that all my socks could be unique!   :D
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Ina

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Aberdeenshire
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2013, 01:42:43 pm »
Yes, I obviously explained that really badly - sorry.  No grafting in the original sock, grafting only when replacing toes or heels.

No, you did explain that perfectly ok - I was thinking of the separate heels for reinforcing... I also want the "flap" of the heel stronger reinforced than the sides, as that makes them thicker/softer as well as harder wearing...

Can you see that I'm just not going to go for the toe-up knitting, no matter what you say?  :roflanim:

(Sorry - old habits die hard - maybe in my next life!  ;D )


One popular brand of German knitting yarn (Roedel) used to sell their sock yarn with a separate small spool of reinforcing thread in the same colour - like the stuff you can buy for darning socks. That was 100% acrylic, and was absolutely great; it didn't make it too bulky (even the toes looked normal with that), and the socks lasted a very long time. Unfortunately they stopped doing  it; maybe because these days most yarn is multicoloured?


Btw, I've not found any 100% natural wool yet that lasted long enough in my boots to make it worth while knitting socks... I use 100% natural for everything else I knit, but my socks are 25% plastic.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2013, 02:14:01 pm »
I'm really not trying to win an argument, Ina, just you'd said you were interested in the idea of toe-up socks, so I was wanting to make sure I hadn't misled you, and you were aware that you could reinforce the heel knitting toe-up.  If you've got a way of making socks that works for you, don't change it!   :)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2013, 02:19:01 pm »
I am hoping that the wool I spin myself will be stronger than shop-bought - it's still a bit early to tell, but when I see how much crud (short fibres etc) I pick out of my own fleece that I know would be included in mill-spun yarn, I am hopeful that, along with being able to put in more twist, and make two of the plies S-twist and one Z, then plying Z, etc, I can make yarn that is much stronger than shop-bought 100% wool.  If not, then I can always blend alpaca or silk in for the heels for extra strength. 

I have been given some trilobal nylon fibre to try, maybe I'll blend some of that in for the heels and toes of BH's next pair...
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Ina

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Aberdeenshire
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2013, 02:36:44 pm »
No - I didn't see this as an argument - if anything, I was trying to persuade myself that it is time to change my ways, and am astonished at finding myself so stuck to my established way of doing things! And you are right, you need to find a way that suits yourself not only from the point of knitting, also from the shape of particular feet, and the way socks wear out for you.

I think using that nylon fibre (or silk or alpaca)  for the heels is a great idea. I tried several types of pure wool - even stuff that was sold as sock yarn - and was fed up with finding they had holes after only wearing them a couple of times. The only type left that I still want to try is Guernsey wool, as that is very densely plied and might just do the trick.

Birdie Wife

  • Joined Oct 2008
Re: Kitchener stitch - latest socks
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2013, 08:38:02 am »
I'm now tempted to order that book.   ::)   First though, I will have a go at socks like that on circular needles.  Just wondering how you deal with the heel though?

Sally, I learned to cast on the thumb method as well but originally, my mum taught me to cast on with two needles by knotting a loop onto the first needle then knitting into that but, instead of taking it off the needle, you twist it and put it on the first needle.  Does that make sense?  It does to me but I know what I'm talking about.  Someone else showed me that if you do this method but knitting into the back of the stitch, you get a firmer edge.  Now I do whichever method seems most appropriate.

I do that too (knit into the stitch and twist it over back onto the left needle) - I think it's called the cable cast-on, but it's the original way my mum taught me so I didn't know any different until recently  :-[  it does give a good stretchy edge though  :)

 

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