Author Topic: Hernias (Read 17835 times)

nelson · « **on:** September 22, 2012, 03:22:01 pm »

What is the 'expected level' of hernias that one would normally see in a litter from a pedigree herd.

I always believed that it came from the boar but talking to some breeders at a recent show in the UK - they say it can be from sow or boar.

Would appreciate other breeders experiences. Thanks

HappyHippy · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2012, 03:44:04 pm »

We had quite a few incidences of scrotial hernia's in the Kunekunes (but they are more prone to it than most breeds I believe due to a weakness in the inguinal canal) In my case I would say it was the boar who passed it on, because recent litters with a different boar have had none. I did do a bit of research into the numbers/patterns with other Kunekune breeders, but everyone had different experiences, and there wasn't a pattern that stood out $:-\$

I've not had any with my 'big' pigs, but have only seen 47 'big pig' piglets born so far.

Does that help at all ?

robert waddell · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2012, 04:10:47 pm »

never had it in breeding pedigree pigs and only onehernia in a castrated boar (cross breed) and that cured itself as the pig grew

if you goggle hernias in pigs this will give you a better indication although hygiene and care of the piglet after birth has a greater bearing in it

rispainfarm · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2012, 04:15:02 pm »

You can also encourage hernias if you pick a piglet up incorrectly, many people pick up and carry by the legs but recent research has shown that this can cause hernias. We always grabbed by the back leg then scoop up and hold that way. Piglet yells but that is part of the course.

Beewyched · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2012, 05:58:12 pm »

Just for clarification - are we talking scrotal or umbilical hernias here

rispainfarm · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2012, 07:30:09 pm »

sorry I am talking umbilical

Beewyched · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2012, 07:35:43 pm »

Quote from: rispainfarm on September 22, 2012, 07:30:09 pm

sorry I am talking umbilical

No need to apologise Linda

- just finding the thread starting a wee bit ambiguous

nelson · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2012, 08:01:27 pm »

Oh sorry - I don't write very well and tried not to be ambiguous.

Beewyched - it is scrotal - it looks like fluid and is on the left testicle. Our vet will deal with it but I am trying to detect why it is happening and from what sow or boar.

Twice this year same sow (served by a different boar) in her litter 2 piglets that have an enlarged testicle - looks like fluid. Not noticable at birth - until about 3-4 weeks.

HH yes thanks useful info - I am trying to see if there is a pattern too. I am pointing the finger at the sow and so want to be wrong ... could be the boar (s) I am going to AI her next and see what happens.

thanks everyone for the input - I posted this to see if other breeders experienced hernias with their pigs - I knew about the KKs but these are in my Berkshire herd although not many over the period of 4 years - but -may be there should be none - hence the question? what is the expected level and what breeders do when this happens. Thanks again.

Beewyched · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2012, 08:26:08 pm »

Hi Nelson

Thanks for the clarification, as both Karen & Linda had answered your question, depending on which type you were asking about

TBH I think all breeds experience scrotal hernias to some degree, they are just noticed more in KKs because
a) 99% of male piglets are castrated, as KKs are often kept as "outdoor pets" or companion pigs
and
b) KKs are usually castrated by a vet (because of the hernia possibility), so the vet will offer to repair it - adding to the cost of the castration by many vets

KKs, though small, start maturing sexually very young (from about 5 months), so even if they are being reared for meat, they are often castrated to prevent unwanted pregnancies or "boar taint". Whereas the "big pig" breeds are rarely castrated, as they are ready "for the chop" a lot younger.
Any boar piglet that I looking at keeping entire (only 1 in the last 2 years) gets checked by my vets at 3 weeks & 5 weeks of age for scrotal hernias, as they can be very slight. I personally do not ask my vet for a repair in any piglet going to a new long-term home, they get kept-back for meat, as a repair is not guaranteed.
Certainly scotal hernias can be passed down either the sow or the boar sides, & with KKs there is such a small gene pool in the UK they more likely to occur - though I guess this could relate to any low-numbers breed.

robert waddell · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2012, 09:00:43 pm »

don't agree with Lynne on the small gene pool yes if a breeder cant be bothered to travel to get a different line but even if there are two boars with the same male breed line they can be totally unrelated through the sow line
i think nelson has answered his own question which brings the breeding of pigs into the same question as the breeding of dogs with known problems not all piglets should or could make it perpetuate there breed and comes down to the breeder to be more ruthless in the selection of the future breeding stock
we castrate nearly all the males and it is only a lucky one or two that get left intact

the cattle world only use pedigree sires for service and only the very best at that the meat trade buy the cheaper ones or the ones that don't quite have that edge for breeding

HappyHippy · « **Reply #10 on:** September 23, 2012, 11:20:33 am »

Quote from: nelson on September 22, 2012, 08:01:27 pm

Twice this year same sow (served by a different boar) in her litter 2 piglets that have an enlarged testicle - looks like fluid. Not noticable at birth - until about 3-4 weeks.

What we had with one of ours (KK) was what looked like a hernia, similar story to yours, we were rearing him for meat (unrepaired) when some folks came looking for pet pigs, they liked the look of Lumpy too

so he went along with them. They decided not to eat him and took him to their vet for a hernia repair job

It turned out it wasn't a hernia after all, but that one testicle hadn't developed properly and there was excess fluid in the area........ was it definately a hernia in yours ?

nelson · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2012, 02:14:11 pm »

Hi HH - interesting

We intend to take him down to the vet Monday and will see then - will let you know. Thanks again for input.

Beewyched · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2012, 08:15:41 pm »

Quote from: robert waddell on September 22, 2012, 09:00:43 pm

don't agree with Lynne on the small gene pool yes if a breeder cant be bothered to travel to get a different line but even if there are two boars with the same male breed line they can be totally unrelated through the sow line
i think nelson has answered his own question which brings the breeding of pigs into the same question as the breeding of dogs with known problems not all piglets should or could make it perpetuate there breed and comes down to the breeder to be more ruthless in the selection of the future breeding stock
we castrate nearly all the males and it is only a lucky one or two that get left intact

the cattle world only use pedigree sires for service and only the very best at that the meat trade buy the cheaper ones or the ones that don't quite have that edge for breeding

Ok Robert, we'll agree to differ on this one, but ...
ALL KKs in the UK are descendants of the 16 that were originally imported by the BKKPS & some of these 16 were related too -
1992 - Te Whangi (Boar), Rebecca Gina (Gilt) & her litter-brother Tutaki, Awakino (G), Kereopa (G).
1993 - Tammerdale (G), Ru (B) & 2 Awakino litter-sisters (G) (this litter had the same Dam as the Awakino Gilt imported in 1992)
1996 - Andrew (Boar) & his 2 litter-sisters Sally, 2 Trish litter-sisters & 2 Jenny litter-sisters
So IMHO that is a small gene pool. I agree that any responsible breeder should be prepared to travel for quality stock - I nearly drove my OH crazy with the mileage I got through sourcing mine, but I now have 2 boar-lines & 3 sow-lines, which I can cross-over for a couple of years, plus Karen has another Boar-line too

Then I'll be on the road again

robert waddell · « **Reply #13 on:** September 23, 2012, 11:01:24 pm »

they cant have eaten very many of the offspring from that first import off 16 in just 22 years to get the vast number of kunnies that are going about or is there great number due to outcrossing and passed off as pure there are two distinct sizes of kunnies as i saw at hatfield last year and the litter size has increased dramatically since i breed them Karen's boar line should trace back to the ones we owned
i could be wrong but i think the Hampshire's has a smaller gene pool than the kunnies and the breeders are getting less as the economics of pigs strikes home Mr pig may come in and impart his knowledge on this