[Anke]

[quote author=SallyintNorth link=topic=27348.msg269747#msg269747 date=1

I could suggest a way to find out (pre-scanning) - if you could get hold of a teaser, raddle him, and run him with the girls, anyone whose bum he paints is not in lamb and could be sold.  Anyone not painted is either in lamb or not cycling yet.

That sounds like a really good idea! Once you know who is in-lamb and who is not you can of course sell them, as long as you know what kind of tup was the culprit (so that prospective buyers know what to expect))... I would have just been uneasy to sell ewe lambs I am not sure about ...
However if they turn out to be in-lamb, surely the owner of the tup(s) needs to re-imburse you somehow for the misbehavious of his boys? When I had my tup a few years ago at a rented field for the summer suddenly some ewes appeared in the next field and I was told by their owner to move my boy pretty quickly away from his girls as he didn't want to have Shetland lambs... It felt quite unfair at the time as I still had to pay for the last couple of months to the owner of the field I was renting... and then the boy came back infertile too (though he didn't know it)..

[Rosemary]

When we bought our heifer calves at 6 months they had been running with their dams and the bull. We had the vet jag them to bring them into season (therefore terminating any accidental pregnancy). Don't know if this would be an option for your sheep

[colliewoman]

Oh Mallows
 
Whatever you do don't feed em too much! My girls were put to the tups as lambs and have continued to GAIN condition all through pregnancy and feeding. They are starting to shove the lambs away now and are FAT   but other than not letting them eat anything I have no idea how to slim them down!
I would set aside some of your best hay for these young girls, should you be the one to have them at lambing (I would suggest you are as I don't recommend 1st timers for 1st timers if that makes sense?) and just let them have that and grass through the winter. MAYBE a little concentrate in the few weeks up to lambing but probably not.
 
If you need a hand give me a shout

[colliewoman]

And WHO is selling Castlemilk Moorit x Shetlands???
 
Have I some of these anyway?
Do I need more?
I might have an extra 4 acres of land soon...........
 
 
 
*cough* My name is Donna and I have a sheep addiction

[Haylo-peapod]

Sorry to hear about you predicament Mallows - I really hope you manage to sort it out. Don't beat yourself up too much about it, rams can be pretty persistent when they want to be! The key thing is that you are being straight with the people who want to buy them - that proves you are a decent and responsible shepherd.
 
Hey don't they say that during the first trimester you shouldn't do too much with pregnant ewes in case they miscarry - SO -how about doing some Sheepy Olympics with them??  (said VERY much tongue in cheek  )

[Mallows Flock]

Well, what a day I have had. catching all ewe lambs and moving them into small paddock with teaser who was very interested in licking and trying to mount them all. Put rigs in also who demonstrated same behaviours. So pretty sure ewe lambs not in lamb which is great... but i rang the potential owners and told them the situation and was honest with them.... knowing what I know now, would I want the risk of a) Feb lambing as a 1st timer b) young lambs lambing without anyone to copy c) young lambs trying to hoik out Poll Dorset lambs 1st time. I advised them against it but ultimately gave them 6 hours to decide for themselves. They decided, wisely, against it. I have passed them onto someone else lovely who has more of what they want/could do well with.
NOW what to do? I have a sheep addiction so really should sell some of these but would it be best keeping them away from ram and maybe selling them in the Spring? I guess I will have a better choice of potential homes then and as Shearlings will be more desirable to buyers as future ewes? God,  I love them all! All 46 have names!
Donna.... in the event of any babkins in bellies, dont worry, they will be on grass, high quality lick buckets and meadow hay only. I generally only try to feed concentrates after lambing to build the ewes back up or as a catching-treat... as 2 years ago, my 3 Charollais were fit to bursting on 1/2 scoop each per day, with hay over winter. Fatties! It's Mary with the Castlemilks. If you need to feed your addiction Don, Lesley has a Shetland ewe with deformned jaw going for free. Obviously a non-breeding home only!

[SallyintNorth]

Well done, Mallows - best outcome for new owners and your ewe lambs.   

As to thinking that teasers and rigs paying attention and trying to mount means the girls are not in lamb... err, it's not quite like that.

The tups will try it on.  When the ewe is receptive, she'll stand for the tup and he'll then successfully mount her, leaving paint on her rear to prove it (assuming you have raddled his chest and keep that topped up.)  A ewe's cycle is 17 days; she will be receptive for less than 24 hours and then again 17 days later.  Therefore on any one day you would expect only about 1/17th of the ewes to be receptive to the tup.  You may get a higher proportion receptive immediately on introducing a tup if the girls have been running next to a tup for a while, but it won't be as high as 50%.

Any ewe lamb showing receptivity to the tup today was quite likely not cycling yesterday, so would not have been 'seen to' by the neighbour's tup.  Equally, any ewe lambs receptive yesterday would probably have gone off the boil by today anyway, whether or not the tup's attentions were successful.

So if you do want to know which ewe lambs are definitely not in lamb, you will need to raddle your rig / teaser and run them together for 18 days (keeping the raddle topped up.)  Any ewe lambs at the end of this period with unpainted bottoms may be in lamb, or may simply not be cycling yet.  Those are the ewe lambs you will want to get scanned in December.  Ewe lambs whose bottoms get painted by the rig are not in lamb.

[colliewoman]

Donna.... in the event of any babkins in bellies, dont worry, they will be on grass, high quality lick buckets and meadow hay only. I generally only try to feed concentrates after lambing to build the ewes back up or as a catching-treat... as 2 years ago, my 3 Charollais were fit to bursting on 1/2 scoop each per day, with hay over winter. Fatties! It's Mary with the Castlemilks. If you need to feed your addiction Don, Lesley has a Shetland ewe with deformned jaw going for free. Obviously a non-breeding home only!

I have met Lesley's 'terrorist' and have offered a home in the event that ANOTHER lass who is interested lets her down. I might have a word with Mary.......


I really will try and ring you tomorrow, my day was so hectic I haven't had time for anything

[Mallows Flock]

Donna... don't panic. I have a new phone... my first smart phone.... and I cannot use the flippin' thing properly. LOL. I am totally stupid with it. If you had rang today i couldn't even answer calls, but I can now! Woo Hoo!
SITN.... a ha (said in best Alan Partridge voice)... thanks for the clarification. I think I got the wrong end of the stick somewhere there. I have red and green raddle paste. Will use red on my ram in ewe field and green on rigs in lamb field. It's super greasy and last year one smothering lasted MONTHS! I have never used a scanner person before but think it's a good idea this year.
None of this lot were meant to be bred from.... but sold and money used to buy me rare breeds. LOL. Sally, what would you advise re: selling when time is right? As ewes with lambs at foot in late spring, or wean lambs and sell them all separately in summer? or something else?

[Foobar]

Erm ... rigs ... you can't be 100% sure that they will be sterile. Might be better to just use one teaser (vasectomised).

[SallyintNorth]

Erm ... rigs ... you can't be 100% sure that they will be sterile. Might be better to just use one teaser (vasectomised).

Good point    Especially if the weather gets very cold... we had an unintentional rig whose internal testicle started working at external temperatures around 20C below...

[SallyintNorth]

None of this lot were meant to be bred from.... but sold and money used to buy me rare breeds. LOL. Sally, what would you advise re: selling when time is right? As ewes with lambs at foot in late spring, or wean lambs and sell them all separately in summer? or something else?

Well, ewes with lambs at foot is usually a good trade - but I suspect you won't be putting them in an auction ring...     I'd have thought a few couples of hogg with a lamb at foot would make a cracking starter flock for a new smallholder.  If they don't sell like that, or you can't make yourself happy with the homes offered    then you could spean and sell the fat lambs, and sell the ewes as lambed shearlings - again, good prices usually, as they've all their lives ahead of them but already know their job.

You could consider selling them as 'scanned in lamb', once you've had them scanned, but I'm guessing that may not suit you - unless the right sort of person were to come along and not too far away.  (Won't want them having long trailer journeys in the last 8 weeks of their pregnancies!)

[landroverroy]

 I wouldn't have thought it's the end of the world, as the people coming to look at your sheep were presumably intending to breed from them anyway. Also, given that only about 60% of ewe lambs take to the tup  in their first year, and he won't have got to them all in one night anyway, there can only  be a small proportion, if any, that have actually got pregnant.

[JUNIOR MEMBER pufflepets]

LOL Sally... you got it.... I am just a sucker for sheep and tho' I do go to the markets to watch and learn and have considered selling in the market, I just have this massive guilt thing going on. Maybe I just need to man up a little. I like the idea of starter flocks in late Spring tho. They can have a month or so on good fresh grass after the winter, I can build the ewes up with concentrate and I can get them all vaccinated etc etc ready to go! Hmm. I like this plan. Thank you!

[JUNIOR MEMBER pufflepets]

Ooops.... logged in as my son again!¬ LOL! Mallows flock 'tis!