[Squinky]

We look after a sow for someone who should farrow in the next month by the look of her. She has 3 kids from her last litter still with her (31 March). Our setup is such that it is very difficult to keep groups separate successfully. Question: can we risk leaving the 3 with her and let her sort things out for herself? There are 3 arcs in the field so they could sleep safely away from their mother. Not ideal i know, but this is the setup we have. Thoughts/experiences ?

[Fowgill Farm]

Seems an unusual set up, are you sure they're coming back for her? You may have to explain more about the situation.The person/people you're pigsitting for what have they told you to do? They must have left some instructions!!
Well first off are you keeping her until farrowing? and have you any idea when she's due
If so then you definetly need to get fencing in place to separate the 3 from her, they cannot stay with her, but in saying that if they were born end of march they should be ready to go to the butchers in mid September depending on breed and be out the way by time she farrows. Is this what the owners have intermated?
Have you farrowed before?  if not do some reading up on an urgent basis.
Book those youngsters into the abbattoir are they boys or girls? They must be about 17 or 18 weks old by now.
Until you give us more info thees not much more help we can give you.
Wait to hear more and will help if can
best Mandy
 
 

[Squinky]

Thanks Mandy, I'll provide more detail.  We arent complete novices btw and the more a learn about pigs, the more I realise that they are very clever and dont need too much interference from humans.
We havent been left "instructions" as they are here. They just look at them and eat the produce!
She was running with Middle White boys until the end of May. We tried, but couldn't keep them apart for the fencing problems I indicated. So she could farrow up to the 3rd week of Sept at the latest.
Her existing three (they are Saddleback x Tamworth btw) wont be ready to kill till 10 months old anyway as we are old and slow here. Mid Sept is 5.5 months ! And most definitely not what we are about. Still babies.
They are all gilts. We sold the boars.
Why do we "definitely [size=78%] [/size][/size][size=78%]need to get fencing in place to separate the 3 from her, they cannot stay with her ". This is what I was asking in the first place. TBH I'm pretty confident [/size][/size]that when she is ready to farrow she will chase her 3 off to one of the other arcs and get on with it. My concern is more what the 3 older ones may do to the litter (assuming they get anywhere near as I've seen the sow in action protecting her babies).[size=78%]
[/size]So to cut to the chase, is separation essential and if so, why?[size=78%]
[/size]Thanks[size=78%]

[princesspiggy]

our pepper farrowed before bagging up so she was still out in woods with other pigs. she just took herself off quietly and no-one bothered her or upset her, in what we noticed. but then ours have alot of acreage to distance themselves.
how big is ur park? in a restricted area, tempers might flare.


who is responsible for the sow? you or the owners?

[Fowgill Farm]

So she could farrow up to the 3rd week of Sept at the latest.
Her existing three wont be ready to kill till 10 months old anyway as we are old and slow here. Mid Sept is 5.5 months ! Why do we "definitely [size=78%]need to get fencing in place to separate the 3 from her, they cannot stay with her ". This is what I was asking in the first place. TBH I'm pretty confident [/size]that when she is ready to farrow she will chase her 3 off to one of the other arcs and get on with it. My concern is more what the 3 older ones may do to the litter (assuming they get anywhere near as I've seen the sow in action protecting her babies).So to cut to the chase, is separation essential and if so, why?Thanks

[size=78%]
 Three TW/SB will be HUGE at ten months but if you've done it before then so be it.
Your fencing sounds inadequate full stop  and you need to get something done about it, As princess piggy says it depends on the space they have, yes she may send off the other girls when she farrows and look for a quiet corner but they might interfere and put the new very small babies at risk, they may also attack them seeing them as rivals for their mums attentions after as you say "only babies"! its up to you. I think you've pretty much dedided to leave them all together to get on with it you just want us to tell you its ok to do it, personally i don't think it is and you'll suffer losses or injuries, IMHO if you can't do a job properly you shouldn't be doing it.
My pigs are all in sociable groups boys in one/girls in another = no accidents in well fenced paddocks, its makes life easier feeding, cleaning up and monitoring them.
As i said it your descision. Doing something now will save a lot of heartache later, the sow will still be able to see her girls thro the fencing and they'll still be able to see and hear her, it just will allow her some quality time to herself before farrowing to get settled, choose her and make her nest and a safe environment for her to farrow.
best of luck
mandy [/size]

[robert waddell]

i would second what Mandy says       it is all just common sense and observation         pigs like to snuggle up to each other  and i can see a problem when she farrows with others beside her unless like princess you have them in a very large area      piglets are from 1 lb and sometimes even less and are a bit dovey until 4 days old   and even a butchers weight pig lying on them they are gone
 
pigs have a habit of proving us wrong we have a sow just now her first litter was 12 and she squashed 7 of them    this time she has had 13 and they are still there even tiny Tim and one of the best mothers this time even better than the British lop   and that is with care and consideration not just leaving them to get on with it

[Sylvia]

As Robert says, this will be the biggest problem as I know to my grief. The sight of little, lifeless piglets having been lain on by big sister is awful. We live and we learn. Keep the sow and litter apart by any means whatsoever, even if you have to keep them in a small shed, your coal house, kitchen, whatever for a week or so. Good luck with your litter

[princesspiggy]

i know people do farrow outside in arks, but we aim to farrow in the stable, where we can be up close, and have saved a fair few lifes this way.
just a thought.

[Pebbles]

Our sows all share one large field with five arks in it...at any one time there are up to seven sows there (with two others in the boar's field). All of our sows farrow in this field, but once a sow starts to bag up we jump at any opportunity to seperate her from the others. We wait until she settles in or near one of the arks and when the other sows are far enough away we surround her, the ark and some land with two strands of electric tape and plastic posts - quickly and quietly it can all be done in 10 minutes.


We then give her plenty of fresh straw (nothing like it to settle pigs) and then top all of the other arks with straw too. All of the sows are then far too busy playing with their fresh straw to bother about anything else. We always have food at the ready when doing this -  to keep the sow where we want her while we pen her & keep the others out of the way.


Definately do all you can to seperate her from the other pigs, its not worth taking a chance that she'll want to be alone or the others will leave her alone. Once we know the sow is safe from the others we try not to interfere (pigs know what they're doing  [size=78%])[/size]


Hope that's of some help. Good Luck! 

[lill]

Peebles, Is all your breeding stock pedigree?

[Squinky]

Well Mandy, thanks for your very pretentious reply. If I wanted talked down to, I'd've asked to be. The size of our weaners at 10 months wasn't part of the question. To suggest they should be slaughtered at 5 months suggests suckling pig at some medieval banquet.
The fencing is new, pig netting to boot. Have you seen what a pig can get through if it wants to? I couldnt work out how 6 month old Middle White boars were getting through until I say it with my own eyes.
Perhaps i should have mentioned the area as princess piggy asked. 4 acres. One sow. Three arcs. Three water sources.
I havent decided to leave them all together. I was trying to find out if anyone had had previous experience of this situation. You jumped right up onto your high horse and IMHO if you ought to apologise for making the comment "if you can't do a job properly you shouldnt be doing it".
Quite frankly, you have been unpleasant and what's worse, no help at all ! If you are remotely interested, what we had decided to do prior to posting on here was separate them, electrify inside the permanent fence and keep a close watch. If you look at my initial post, you'll see the last word was "experiences". Something Pebbles obviously noticed and you didn't.

[Squinky]

Our sows all share one large field with five arks in it...at any one time there are up to seven sows there (with two others in the boar's field). All of our sows farrow in this field, but once a sow starts to bag up we jump at any opportunity to seperate her from the others. We wait until she settles in or near one of the arks and when the other sows are far enough away we surround her, the ark and some land with two strands of electric tape and plastic posts - quickly and quietly it can all be done in 10 minutes.


We then give her plenty of fresh straw (nothing like it to settle pigs) and then top all of the other arks with straw too. All of the sows are then far too busy playing with their fresh straw to bother about anything else. We always have food at the ready when doing this -  to keep the sow where we want her while we pen her & keep the others out of the way.


Definately do all you can to seperate her from the other pigs, its not worth taking a chance that she'll want to be alone or the others will leave her alone. Once we know the sow is safe from the others we try not to interfere (pigs know what they're doing  [size=78%])[/size]


Hope that's of some help. Good Luck! 

Thanks very much. Helpful advice as sought.

[robert waddell]

oh dear another one seeking advice and not happy with the advice they get
it is prudent to have them separated    pigs while farrowing can be very unpredictable  and they are better on there own without any interuptions or distractions  also some pigs get very upset with other pigs squealing esp new born ones and can just see them as a source of food    even farrowing sows are prone to this
in your original post there is no mention of electric fences and scare wires     that is the set up we have and to date we have not had any escapes or unintentional getting it on
 
it is funny how a poster asks questions then slips a few more bits of info into that  and would generate a totally different answer if all the info were divulged at the outset

[Fowgill Farm]

oh dear another one seeking advice and not happy with the advice they get

in your original post there is no mention of electric fences and scare wires     that is the set up we have and to date we have not had any escapes or unintentional getting it on
 
it is funny how a poster asks questions then slips a few more bits of info into that  and would generate a totally different answer if all the info were divulged at the outset

If i remember i did ask for more info in my original reply, as i have said before we can only offer advice on the information given by the poster and Robert has hit the nail on the head as usual, so i'm afraid no apology so thats me in the baby corner
Mandy

[Squinky]

Robert, Nice unhelpful reply, thanks. If you had read my last reply you'd have seen I was/am intending to seperate them. I asked if anyone had experience of not doing so. You ever heard of punctuation btw? It does make reading so much easier!