[robbiegrant]

We are specifically referring to Indian Runners.

After much study regarding weight loss it seems that 14% over the development of the duckling in the egg is optimal.

Our eggs were weighed upon setting in the incubator.

It is was a standard Brinsea auto turning, still air incubator that has the addition of a digital thermometer/hygrometer and two small fans taken from a computer power supply to circulate the air in the unit. ( so, effectively it is not a still air unit anymore.....  )

We also play classical music to the eggs 24/7  

Temperature at between 37.2F and 37.6F
Humidity around 50-55%

The average egg weighed roughly 60 grams

After the first 50 hours weighed again.

for sure something is happening...

The average loss is 1.25 grams!  ( over 50 hours )

Now.... If average loss over the whole incubation period is 14% the total loss should be around  8.4 grams.

I know porosity, shell thickness, humidity and temperature are all factors in is...

My question is.....

It seems that 1.25 grams in the first 50 hours seems to be a massive loss.
Does anyone know if this weight loss is linear? or is there a larger loss at the beginning of gestation and it tails off as the embryo metabolises the yolk and the airsac size increases?

Atleast something is happening!!!

I am wondering if an unfertilized ( control ) egg placed in the enviroment ( and monitored very carefully ) would lose weight at all or at a similar rate to a fertilised gestating egg.

Any answers?

Ta!

[the great composto]

Are you trying to work out whether you can tell if your eggs are fertile by weighing them through the process?  It seems an interesting idea.
I cant understand what the weight loss would be caused by - evaporation of fluid from the shell or the shell contents?
Surely the loss would be the same whether fertile or not - interesting tho'
It would be interesting if this worked for hens eggs too but possibly easier just to wait it out

[robbiegrant]

Are you trying to work out whether you can tell if your eggs are fertile by weighing them through the process?  It seems an interesting idea.
I cant understand what the weight loss would be caused by - evaporation of fluid from the shell or the shell contents?
Surely the loss would be the same whether fertile or not - interesting tho'
It would be interesting if this worked for hens eggs too but possibly easier just to wait it out

Greetingz...

Well...... I am really trying to work out if healthy development is going on. If the weight loss is linear. If weight  is lost at the present rate my Runner eggs will be half the weight they where when they went in... That doesnt sound very healthy to me....

Anybody know on average what an IR duckling weighs?

I will continue to gather weight data on our individually numbered eggs and correlate the data into a chart to see if the weight loss tails off.

I also found this very interesting article you might like to read....

http://www.epsaegypt.com/pdf/2008_september/767-784.pdf

all the best

Robbie

[the great composto]

thanks robbie - interesting article because most people dont increase humidity until day 18 ( i think).  My problems have been more to do with infertile eggs than succesful hatching of chicks.
I have hatched some ducks for a friend & had 5 out of 6 hatched (they weren't IR's)

[robbiegrant]

I was flabbergasted to discover they where dipping eggs in liquid paraffin to reduce the porosity of the shell.
Don't think i fancy trying that...

I do find it is a maintaining  decent humidity i.e. anything above 55 a job of constant checking and correction though.

Because ducks like to get wet, they naturally increase the humidity themselves..

I would imagine chickens probably are less fussy when it comes to humidity? I don't know though...

Maybe I'm just being an over zealous daddy duck as they are our first clutch...

 

[the great composto]

I was flabbergasted to discover they where dipping eggs in liquid paraffin to reduce the porosity of the shell.
Don't think i fancy trying that...

Well it was for the purpose of the experiment - at the conclusion they do recommend increasing the humidity because its impractical to dip the eggs in LP.

And yes...........  i agree -  over excited first time daddy duck

Good luck with them anyway

[robbiegrant]

Hi Compo

This makes very interesting reading?

http://poultrykeeper.com/incubating-and-hatching-eggs/weight-loss-method-forl-incubation

Robbie

[the great composto]

Thanks Robbie  I have some eggs in at the moment and i was up for increasing the humidity from day 14 rather than 18 till I read that.  I would have been interested to follow the experiment but too late to weight them now.
Having had only 2-3 dead in shell before i would still like to prevent that.
I wish fertility was better - my rate has been really low over the eggs I have tried to hatchprobably only 15% i would guess.

[robbiegrant]

Hi Compo
Sorry to hear your hatch rates have been so low. What would you attribute to that?
What kind are you hatching? Do you source your eggs through the post?

I met a very nice lady today that told me categorically  stay at 37.5 degs F and 45% RH ( which my brinsea sits at very steadily. )

So Im not gonna mess.  the other hatching Indian runners came today so the are twelve little souls gestating away now. 

I want 11 girls and 1 drake please.... 

Yolking aside.

We will be happy with whatever we get. However I will be looking to keep one pure white IR boy and will find homes for any others that we are graced with.

All this research has made me thirsty.... me needs a pint!

[the great composto]

Sorry to hear your hatch rates have been so low. What would you attribute to that?
What kind are you hatching? Do you source your eggs through the post?

I think its ebayers overstating fertility.
Last time i  tried to reduce the risk by having 6 light sussex eggs from 2 different ebayers & get 1 chick!  So I assume the incubator is working or i wouldnt have got the one.
I checked all the others and they hadnt even started to develop so I assume a fertility problem unless there could be another reason?
Hence my interest in your research.
Now you have had a few beers you will probably have forgotten it by tomorrow.

[robbiegrant]

Hi Compo I have started another thread regarding the development of the eggs.
here...

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=26817.msg264567#msg264567

be well
Robbie

[robbiegrant]

I do however plan to weigh them all ( possibly tonight if im not too knackered ) and publish the results on the other thread on our wee embryo's...  It may even be of interest...

topic: our first brood of 12 indian runners in fife

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=26817.0

[graham-j]

Hi,I tried this a couple of years ago,the eggs were a large commercial white duck,and weighed average 96 grams each.Which meant they had to loose 14grams or 1/2 a gram a day.The weight loss is down to water evaporation from the egg.
The big difficulty I found was,finding some scales accurate enough.I had some scales accurate to 1gram but when I put an egg on them the reading kept flicking from one reading to another,say 94-95.Bearing in mind that I was trying to measure a weight loss of 1/2 a gram this wasn't very helpful.I figured in the end Lifes just to short.
Now I just stick the eggs in the incy Temp 37.5c humidity  to 55% I up this to 70% as soon as the eggs pip.
I turn the eggs 3 times a day by hand,end over end don't rotate.I also spray the eggs with tepid water until it runs off them every time I turn them.

Graham.

[robbiegrant]

Hi Graham

I have posted the DATA regarding the eggs at 14 days on the above mentioned post.
but here it is here too....

Weights for the A team

A1 day 1 60.7g - @ 11 Day =  54.4grams ( Was removed a few days ago un_fertile ) loss 6.3g!!!
A2 day 1 59.3g - @ 14 Days = 52.2g  loss 7.1g
A3 day 1 62.0g - @ 14 Days = 55.9g  loss 6.1g
A4 day 1 57.0g - @ 14 Days = 50.6g  loss 6.4g
A5 day 1 60.3g - @ 14 Days = 53.3g  loss 7.0g
A6 day 1 58.8g - @ 14 Days = 51.9g  loss 6.9g

Target weight loss to pipping stage 8.33grams @14% of total egg weight
Average egg size 59.5 average loss 6.7g average loss per day 0.478g

Sooooooooo..... at 14 days the eggs average weight loss equals slightly over 11%
I hope weight loss is slowing or I will never reach my healthy 14% target!!!!
This revelation has got me a teensyweensy bit paranoid.
Does anyone know if the weight loss is linear or..... well.... err...... curved?

Yes. Without a 0.1gram accuracy the task would be impossible im sure.
I agree weighing everyday does become too much ( for me and the embryos. ) But after todays results I will be checking again soon to allay fears!
Life is too short. but its our first brood

Turning the eggs end over end is interesting instead of rotating. I have heard this before. Any Idea why?

Did you spray your eggs from day 1 in the incubator?
3 times a day?

Best Regards Robbie

[graham-j]

Hi Robbie,I tried several time to hatch goose eggs with out any successes at all,and after speaking with several people and my own trials the method above is what I came up with.This year I incubated 40 goose eggs in 3 batches ,8eggs were infertile 3 didn't hatch and I ended up with 29 geese pretty good I think,one had to be culled and one drowned never had that before.
I use the the same method for geese on ducks eggs again with good results,I'm convinced turning by hand 3 time a day end over end is what drastically increased my hatches.I say don't rotate as there are two spring things that hold the yoke in place these can get twisted up by rotating,if you candle a large egg such as duck or goose when you rotate it to fast the contents stay stationary when the shell turned.I spray with luke warm water every time I turn.
I started turning by hand as I'm convinced that most small home incubators are designed to turn hens eggs and they don't turn a large goose or duck egg enough to do the job.
That is what I have done and it works for me.

Back to subject weighing eggs,I presumed the weight lose would be linear eg. constant throughout the incubating period.I thought the Idea was you monitor your egg weight loss.If say it works out you need to loose 1/2 a gram a day,you monitor the loss and if its to high you increase the humidity if to low you decrease the humidity.So if after 4 days you should have lost 2g and you lost 3g you would raise the humidity.
What incy are you using and what humidity are you running at.

Graham.