NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!  (Read 5107 times)

Mallows Flock

  • Joined Apr 2012
  • Shepton mallet
    • Somerset Pet Sitting and Dog Walking
Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« on: July 06, 2012, 10:58:03 pm »
I have been lucky in the last 3 years in that I have never, ever encountered nematodes. I guess this is to do with sheer luck, the fact I rotation graze my 4 paddocks, never overstock and generally have a pretty closed flock.
THEN....I get 9 cade lambs from a commercial farmer. 1st evening they suffer bloat( farmer later tells me they hadn't been fed for 40 hours due to his commitment to shearing his 1600 sheep whist it was dry!) Day 2 I notice worms in their poo which looked like grains of rice to I oramec'd them all. 2 weeks later one won't stop coughing and has scour and 3 look skinny, depressed and generally not doing well and one had diarrhoea with a massive long 3 inch worm in it! I all-vermed them, vaccinated them with their boosters and watched and waited. then again TODAY I notice many more rice-grain type worms in one of my OTHER LAMBS POOP (all lambs grazing together.) 1 of my cades is still poorly.... eats grass well, no interest bar a mouthful of creep...a few sucks on milk and is skinny and tiny. She runs about with the others happily tho and looks interested and bright eyed. Vets sure she has chronic worm damage from poor raising from birth to 3 weeks (when I got her) plus chronic untreated worm infestation. I have shed many tears for her.
Today I once again oramec'd but am getting concerned now that I am overworming and that 3 of my 4 paddocks are probably infested now. Time will tell. Groan.
From 3 to 30 and still flocking up!
Voss Electric Fence

suziequeue

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • Llanidloes; Powys
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 06:22:09 am »
Sorry to hear that.


Have you sent poo samples?
We do the best we can with the information we have

When we know better we do better

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2012, 07:36:10 am »
That poor skinny baby  :-* and I'm sorry you've got worms on your land now (though most of us do). I hope she picks up with all the TLC.

The grains-of-rice type worms are tapeworm segments, so make sure you are using a wormer that does tapeworms too, as not all of them do.


Deere

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Peak District
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2012, 08:02:26 am »
Hi,

It sounds as if you have been doing the right thing before they arrived  :trophy:.

Get some samples from a couple of the bought in lambs one from one of your lambs and a random ewe and get them down to the vets for a worm count ASAP.

This will tell you the amount of worms and also the type of infestation you have.

This will also show if your building up a resistance to certain types of wormer and whether a change is due?

I attended a talk on wormers by a local vets this week and they did say that ewes tend not to be bothered by worms and act as hoovers and pass the eggs out without letting them mature as their inbuilt immunity is that good.  This does drop around lambing time and a short acting wormer is best used to help them through this 3-4 week gap.

If you can in future when buying in any stock keep is separate for about three weeks this would help show up any signs of illness that could appear and save your well managed grassland.

For most wormers you would have to give ten times more than the recommended dose to make any effect on the animal so what you have given them should be ok (but I'm not saying give it more!) :)

I hope all comes good again soon as you obviously care a great deal about your animals,

Tim
Pedigree Ryelands, Charolais cross Mules

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 08:49:19 am »
That poor skinny baby  :-* and I'm sorry you've got worms on your land now (though most of us do). I hope she picks up with all the TLC.

The grains-of-rice type worms are tapeworm segments, so make sure you are using a wormer that does tapeworms too, as not all of them do.
Tapeworms are rarely a welfare issue and have almost no effect on growth rates according to Defra advice we got through our vet last week.
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

suziequeue

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • Llanidloes; Powys
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2012, 09:06:26 am »
Quote
Tapeworms are rarely a welfare issue and have almost no effect on growth rates according to Defra advice we got through our vet last week.


Blimey!!! I find that hard to believe........ but then I'm not an expert
We do the best we can with the information we have

When we know better we do better

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2012, 09:30:16 am »
Still wouldn't want my sheep having them. The lack of problems caused is a function of the numbers anyway, as it is with nematodes, ie if they have enough they'll cause problems.

And ok if the sheep are the final host, ie they'e got a species where the adult worm is in their gut but not if they get the tapeworm that causes hydatid cysts  :o

Echinococcus tapeworms and hydatids


SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2012, 11:11:06 am »
Eblex do a comprehensive list of which wormers kill which worms (and which are yellow, white, clear, etc)

http://www.eblex.org.uk/returns/articles-controlling-sheep-parasites.aspx
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

kumquat

  • Joined May 2012
  • Ruthin, North Wales
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 11:51:40 am »
What a fantastic guide and interesting the range of withdrawal periods in each group....
Thanks for posting the link Sally  :trophy: :trophy:
Jon
Proud member of the Soay Sheep Society :thumbsup:

Mallows Flock

  • Joined Apr 2012
  • Shepton mallet
    • Somerset Pet Sitting and Dog Walking
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2012, 02:16:20 pm »
Thank you so much for all your advice.....the Eblex list is brilliant  :thumbsup:
I did speak to my vet about a poo sample but they said treat then bring one in in three weeks time. i think I will just do one anyway and drop it in.
I did use a tapeworm wormer so at least I know I have gotten that bit right! LOL
And Tim.... yes, I do care very much about my animals.  ;D  A bit twee but they are an extension of my family and I feel I owe it to them to give them the very best care. I am happy being a meat eater in the knowledge that the animals I am eating have not suffered in life, have been cared for, given affection and the best I can afford in terms of fodder, shelter, medicines etc. I think that's as fair a trade off as I can possibly muster.
Being a single woman with a full time business and a son it does mean that I stretch myself to the limit at times but when I look into the fields and see happy, healthy animals, clean and tidy shelters, scrubbed feed and water containers and have a whole flock of sheep that are happy to come up to me to be petted, it makes it all so very worth while.
I do wish I had kept the cades separate from my other lambs tho. I don't know why I didn't!!!! I think I must have just been all over excited...giddy at the new intake and just not thinking logically. I have learned that valuable lesson now tho, that's for certain! LOL
From 3 to 30 and still flocking up!

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2012, 06:39:26 pm »
Thats strange advice from your vets.


Do a FEC and then you will know if you actually need to worm. Sounds to me like the kind of advice that someone selling wormer might give...


Edited to add: 'rice grains' in the dung could be anything from grass seeds to dung fly eggs. You need to get a FEC done.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 06:41:01 pm by SteveHants »

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2012, 09:26:53 pm »
Our vet isn't keen on using FECs as a first port of call.  His concern is that the sheep can be infested before the uninvited guests start emiting eggs, plus I think there are some worms that FECs don't pick up.  We are recommended to treat first, with something that covers the likely contenders, then FEC a couple of weeks later.  They like using FECs to help confirm that the wormers are working, or otherwise, so that resistance can be identified and dealt with.

Yes the vet does sell wormers, but they are well aware that we are all much more likely to buy our wormers at the agri-merchant.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2012, 10:34:47 pm »
Odd..the FEC cant pick up fluke, I think.


If you want to look for resistance, FEC, worm and then FEC again, it takes no time.


As soon as I have got enough cash, I'll buy a microscope and start doing my own.


Edited to add: FECs are a great tool to stop you having to worm routineley, which is a contribiting factor in resistant worms, it seems to make no sense to fec once you have wormed, unless they are going to say you now need to worm again...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 10:38:33 pm by SteveHants »

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2012, 10:42:54 pm »
The advice on tapeworm was from Defra, delivered by the vet as part of a series of courses he's giving to his farm clients paid for by HMG out of the levy.


This vet loves FEC...
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

ScotsGirl

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Wiltshire
Re: Worms, worms, FLIPPIN' WORMS!
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2012, 10:50:48 pm »
The reason the vet doesn't want to do worm count straight away is to give wormer time to do its job then let the cycle start again to see if still present.  Fluke need a special test but then only show up randomly when the body releases the  eggs (might not be quite right wording on what is released).
 
I have this discussion constantly because I have a zero worm count but regularly see tapeworm segments. Seems the sheepie variety is different from the doggy type which cause brain cysts. Vets are never bothered but I did insist on worming everything this time with an allround wormer.
 
I have some cracking lambs compared to last year so think it was worth it.

 

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