[WarescotFarm]

We have 2 weaners on their way to slaughter in 2 weeks
We are a family of 5 and will take forever to get through all the meat, can we sell it onto friends or do you need special licences etc... to do that
we are defra registered, tagged, going to abitoire, prepared by butcher etc...

thanks e

[arl]

if it has gone through all the official channels and been prepared by a butcher in registered premises there should be no problem
Arl

[lachlanandmarcus]

To be strictly within the rules, the meat needs to be transported in proper refridgerated transport on every stage of its journey, not just a cool box or box with ice bags. So ideally anyone buying it would be picking it up direct from the butchers (assuming this is at abbatoir or delivered to butcher in butcher or abbatoirs refridgerated van) or direct from the abbatoir (if it wouldnt be).

[princesspiggy]

To be strictly within the rules, the meat needs to be transported in proper refridgerated transport on every stage of its journey, not just a cool box or box with ice bags. So ideally anyone buying it would be picking it up direct from the butchers (assuming this is at abbatoir or delivered to butcher in butcher or abbatoirs refridgerated van) or direct from the abbatoir (if it wouldnt be).

i met with our local EH inspector and asked him about this and i knew u could use commercial freezeboxes with icepacks. i was expecting him to demand refridgerated van etc but he just said get a polystrene box in the back of the car and that will be fine.

[P6te]

To be strictly within the rules, the meat needs to be transported in proper re-fridgerated transport on every stage of its journey, not just a cool box or box with ice bags. So ideally anyone buying it would be picking it up direct from the butchers (assuming this is at abattoir or delivered to butcher in butcher or abattoirs re-fridgerated van) or direct from the abattoir (if it wouldn't be).

I'm interested to hear the part regarding abattoir / butcher needing to transport it in a refridgerated van.  I thought our abattoir / butcher had stated to us that even they do not need a refridgerated unit to move meat between their shops!  Can you point me to the regulations?

[HappyHippy]

To be strictly within the rules, the meat needs to be transported in proper refridgerated transport on every stage of its journey, not just a cool box or box with ice bags. So ideally anyone buying it would be picking it up direct from the butchers (assuming this is at abbatoir or delivered to butcher in butcher or abbatoirs refridgerated van) or direct from the abbatoir (if it wouldnt be).

i met with our local EH inspector and asked him about this and i knew u could use commercial freezeboxes with icepacks. i was expecting him to demand refridgerated van etc but he just said get a polystrene box in the back of the car and that will be fine.

Yup, my EHO said the same, but we are about 20mins from the butcher so I would expect if it was a greater distance/time they might be more insistant on temperature control.
We registered with trading standards so we can sell meat to the 'general public' straight from home (as opposed to farmers markets - they need a bit more faff  ) The only real requirement is that you have a seperate freezer for the stuff for sale, practice good hygiene and stock rotation and are paying attention to temp and showing best practice with regard to moving, handling and storing. It doesn't cost anything to register and you will get a visit - but it's nothing to worry about, they really just want to make sure you're doing it well and are mostly really helpful and approachable. 
 
If you think it'll take forever to get through all the pork, get lots of sausages made    They store easier and are a great freezer standby 
HTH
Karen 

[FiB]

... and also - youd be surprised how quick you can eat a delicious pig!!  With a family of 5 too.  There are only 3 of us and we have a joint or chops and a cooked breakfast at weekends and sometimes sausages in teh week and I recon we've eaten one of our 2 since march.  Wish we'd made more bacon - we did have lots of sausages made and that was good.

[Rosemary]

I THINK most food regulation now tell you what you have to achieve but leave how you achieve it up to you. For example, the regs may say that walls in a food premises have to be able to be thoroughly cleaned - but how you achieve that is up to you - stailess steel, plastic panels or whatever.

So regarding the temperature of fresh meat, the regs are likely to say that the meat must be held at a temperature below 5C. How you do that is up to you and will depend on the quantity of meat and how far it is travelling. You will also have to prove that your systems are appropriate, so records of temperature etc. will have to be maintained.

[princesspiggy]

I THINK most food regulation now tell you what you have to achieve but leave how you achieve it up to you. For example, the regs may say that walls in a food premises have to be able to be thoroughly cleaned - but how you achieve that is up to you - stailess steel, plastic panels or whatever.

So regarding the temperature of fresh meat, the regs are likely to say that the meat must be held at a temperature below 5C. How you do that is up to you and will depend on the quantity of meat and how far it is travelling. You will also have to prove that your systems are appropriate, so records of temperature etc. will have to be maintained.

we are starting off slow by just selling frozen packaged meat - as it comes from the cutting plant / butcher.
when i met with EH he was happy for the concrete floor to be painted with garage floor paint, no need for handwashing facilities or washable walls. im from a catering background so know what EH inspectors insist on in food premises, but apparently that only applies if u are a) selling fresh meat and b) weighing and measuring it yourself. if u have sealed, wrapped meat, then it is so much easier, if it is vaccumed wrapped, then even better.
i would like to progress to having an area where i can make sausages/hams etc but in the meantime selling frozen meat suits me.
the EH was v friendly, knowledgable and helpful. so dont feel worried by speaking with them.


 

[lachlanandmarcus]

To be strictly within the rules, the meat needs to be transported in proper re-fridgerated transport on every stage of its journey, not just a cool box or box with ice bags. So ideally anyone buying it would be picking it up direct from the butchers (assuming this is at abattoir or delivered to butcher in butcher or abattoirs re-fridgerated van) or direct from the abattoir (if it wouldn't be).

I'm interested to hear the part regarding abattoir / butcher needing to transport it in a refridgerated van.  I thought our abattoir / butcher had stated to us that even they do not need a refridgerated unit to move meat between their shops!  Can you point me to the regulations?

It is what I was told by council as the requirement to keep under 5 degrees (some say cant be guaranteed with a a cool box/ice packs. But since the requirement is to meet the temperature, I guess if you are confident it will stay under the temp the whole journey (eg if it isnt going a long way) then in practice that would be OK.
The safest way for you is for the customer to pick up from somewhere in the processing chain where it has always been refridgerated.
Friends are sometimes only friends until one gets food poisoning, the lure of compensation culture.....

[si-mate]

I would like to collect the meat cut and sausages from the butcher and pack & label ourselves. Does anyone know what hoops we would need to jump through?

[HappyHippy]

The easy answer is LOADS 
You'd basically have to have the same set up you'd need for butchering. Double sinks and a seperate handwash one, washable surfaces and floors, temperature controlled area for working/storing the pork, then you'd have all the sampling and labelling stuff to contend with - weights and measures etc.
Talk to your environmental health and trading standards folk si-mate, but honestly, unless you have a couple of free rooms and a bit of cash to set it up you'd be better off getting the butchers to do it for you    Then all you need to do is add a label to identify or 'brand' it - talk to the butcher also, you might be able to get labels made up to your design or with your logo to go through their printer 
I don't mean to sound negative about the doing it yourself bit - but there is a lot to it I'm afraid 
HTH
Karen 

[oaklandspigs]

Lots, if you are packing yourself, then EH will need to approve your premises.
 
On labelling, you'll come under the Food Labelling Regulations 1996 (FLR) which say you must describe the product correctly eg “leg of pork” is leg meat from a pig, it must have a weight that is correct (both not over or under – EH usually approve your scales), have a use by date that has a logic behind it, and any storage instructions relevant to that (eg keep refrigerated if your use by date assumes that it is kept in a fridge).  Where there are additional ingredients, these must be listed (but some are allowed to be excluded) in QUID order.
 
You’ll also come under the Meat Products Regulations 2003 for your sausages, with a sausage needing to contain at least 32% pig meat, and if you are going to call it a “pork sausage” then at least 42% pork meat.  Having said that “meat” is defined by EC directive 2000/13 as amended by directive 2001/101 as “Skeletal muscles of mammalian and bird species recognised as fit for human consumption with naturally included or adherent tissue where total fat and connective tissue do not exceed”...fat 30% connective tissue 25%. 
 
So a pork sausage can consist of 42% meat, which in turn may only have 45% real meat, in other words a “pork sausage” may actually only have 19% meat, with the rest being fat, connective tissue, rusk or other fillers.
 
 
 
 
 

[arl]

God you all make it sound so complicated it is going to be prepared at their local butchers i am sure he will be regulated and know the necessary procedures its just a matter of selling the prepared packaged meat.
Arl

[HappyHippy]

Ah, no Arl - just to clarify my last post was in relation to the question asked by si-mate who wanted his butcher to cut, but he was going to pack, wrap and label it himself (as I think is Oaklands  )
Karen