[chairmanphil]

there is an 87 year old Bramley on my plot that got cut right back last year as it had been neglected and left unloved for the last 25 years. it has sprouted in about 30 different places over the summer last year and all are in fine health now. should i cut most of these shoots off and shape the tree as i want it or should i just let it recover this season and prune it next early spring?

[deepinthewoods]

i think its recomended to prune fruit trees in the winter so before next spring would probably be best, fleecewife knows more about this than me.

[chairmanphil]

i think its recomended to prune fruit trees in the winter so before next spring would probably be best, fleecewife knows more about this than me.

thanx mate! 

[Dan]

Over-pruning of an old or neglected apple tree is one of the few circumstances when you should prune in late summer.

If your tree has lots of upright growth these are vegetative shoots. They will fruit eventually, but it's likely there will be too many. The Fruit Tree Handbook (my new favourite book!) has this to say:

It is best to prune such trees in the summer, because summer pruning stimulates less growth. Between a third and a half of this vegetative growth can be removed each year until you are left with a few that can be allowed to grow on to form new brances. This process will take several years. It is preferable to make just a few larger cuts when pruning in this way, rather than many smaller ones, because each new cut will result in more new shoots emerging. Cuts should be made low down on each branch so as to remove them entirely.

HTH.

[chairmanphil]

thanx Dan, it does help alot! 

[Fleecewife]

i think its recomended to prune fruit trees in the winter so before next spring would probably be best, fleecewife knows more about this than me.

Who - me?? Pruning terrifies me until I get started then it all makes sense.

Phil I think we need to see a photo to know just what you mean 

[suziequeue]

I'm keeping an eye o this thread. We have a similar situation. Our very ancient Bramleys (badly pruned in the past and then neglected) were given a pretty severe haircut last autumn by a pruning expert (we had NO idea!!) and they don't seem to have developed alot of long thin branches.... yet! But is it too early to tell?

[chairmanphil]

i think its recomended to prune fruit trees in the winter so before next spring would probably be best, fleecewife knows more about this than me.

Who - me?? Pruning terrifies me until I get started then it all makes sense.

Phil I think we need to see a photo to know just what you mean 

will do today and post tonight. thanx FW! 

[chairmanphil]

got some good shots today but waiting for them to download and it is taking ages! 

[Plantoid]

You could take off a couple of those sicons and graft them on other apple trees and visa versa .  A two variety tree is food to have

[chairmanphil]

[chairmanphil]

this is how it looked 4 years ago

[Fleecewife]

Oh what a shame you cut it back so brutally Phil.  Hopefully no canker or other bacteria will have got in via the sawn cuts.  Because it has been so drastically pruned but has a large root system for a big tree, it will produce a lot of vegetative growth ie shoots which will not flower this year but which are aimed at making the tree big again - which you don't want.  You want to keep your tree under control and producing fruit not huge branches.

So now you need to think what shape you want it to be.  There are several new laterals coming from the main trunk - do you want to keep those or do you want to just have the pompom bits on the top?  It would probably be best to remove the ones on the trunk, so cut them flush with the bark.
Then you have three big branches, each of which is trying to turn into a new tree.  Once branches start to grow from all of them you will be back to the tangle you had before.  If it was my tree, I would remove all but one big branch (cut them off near the trunk which is to be kept, in the winter, not now) and choose the branch which best balances the tree ie the one coming back over the main trunk to be your new tree shape.  Then shape the new tree top as you would any new tree.  So you would choose 5 or 6 of the best placed and sturdiest new shoots, and remove the others. The shoots you chose at this stage will govern the eventual shape of your tree so choose shoots which are evenly spaced around the trunk.   Cut the chosen shoots back to about 2/3rds of their current length in June, then in the winter cut them back again to about half their length, cutting to an outward facing bud.  Your aim is to create a flattish goblet-shaped top to your tree, with a space in the centre to allow air to circulate, and fruit within reach.  If you choose an outward facing bud to be the top one of your cut side shoot, then the next length to grow in the coming season will help the shape to spread out, whereas if you cut to an inward facing bud the new shoots will head towards the middle of the tree and become a tangle, with crossed branches etc.

Next winter you can prune for fruit 

[chairmanphil]

nice one mate, i will read this tomorrow when i haven't drunk so much beaujolais. the reason it got cut back so drastically is because of all sorts of nasty fungus and the bark was missing all over the place and there where lots of dead branches. it was a mess and i thought i would kill or cure it.  my Dad wanted to dig it up and plant a new tree but i thought i would cut it back to a place where it had all its bark. when we uncovered it it was covered in a grey mould, and choked from top to bottom with ivy. we only knew about the mould when we pulled all the ivy off. but then the whole site has been a story like this. i am really glad it has come back to life, i was told it was finished as a tree. it has been pruned like this for 14 months now.

[Fleecewife]

Ah well that explains it - definitely worth trying to save it.  We are at 1000 feet here which is really above the altitude for apples, so all of ours are stressed and tend to get canker and so on - terribly difficult to get rid of but by judicious pruning you can often keep them going.  I'll let you get back to the wine    If my ramblings are still not clear tomorrow I will try to explain better.