[wytsend]

Sorry Violetsprite if I have been more blunt than you would think appropriate,  but quite recently I heard of a similar situation to yourself.... Trading standards would have none of the reasons given, again almost identical to yourself... the people were in Court with a hefty fine of £5000 !!!!!!!!

I was trying to avoid the same situation..... I am very very glad everything is sorting itself.

The rules in my opinion, are worse than useless, often are ignored by the big boys  but we, the small goat/sheep owners, are the soft touch and easy to deal with.

[Roxy]

There are stll some very naive animal owners around, when it comes to movement forms, ear tags etc.

Over the past few years I have taken in a fair number of goats from people who could no longer keep them for one reason or another.  Over the telephone I asked the usual questions ....including are they tagged? 

"No, they live in my garden" was the response from a number of goat owners. 

One lady, had her pygmy billy escape, returned in a police van (bet they were pleased with the smell!) and he had no tag.  She was later visited by "someone official"  I assume this was Trading Standards.  Fortunately she had the movement forms for the billy and adult female, the kid was born in her garden.  They went away saying all was well.  But .....what puzzles me, is only the adult female had a tag in.  The woman had bought the billy, kept him, and was trying to give him to me along with the other two, with no tag in.  Surely these "officials" noticed??
Needless to say, I insisted on the tags before they left her premises.

Same senario with two females - no tags.  (fell out they said), but no holes in the ear.  I have my doubts.

There are still people with goats and other livestock, not tagged.  To be fair, if you have not kept goats before, and do not check to see the legalities (which you should of course) maybe it can be assumed nothing is required.


In the not too distant past, I kept goats, and no one knew they existed - they lived, and died on the farm, and were buried.  Thats how a lot of people kept goats.  There was no paperwork, tags or anything!!!

[SallyintNorth]

Lovely pictures - and I love the scenery as much as seeing your menagerie enjoying their walk!  Whereabouts are you?  Gorgeous autumn colours, I can almost taste the lovely clean air!

[Violetsprite]

Hi SallyintNorth! We are in the beautiful Brecon Beacons. Do you have goats? The sheep farmers here think i'm bonkers but i love them. BTW no one has replied to my query about replacement tags - i'm holding on in hope that seller is going to honour an offer to send correct tags for me but if Wytsend proves right & i am overly optimistic about their goodwill then i will have to put red tags in. I'd appreciate a comment on whether the herd no. should be mine or sellers as i've read conflicting advice - thanks all.

[Fleecewife]

If the seller never assigned the goats tags, then you can't put their number on the red ones.  So if that is the case then it has to be your flock number. 

The tag companies are very good at knowing what to do in whatever situation you present them with, so when you ring up to order the tags, explain the situation to them and they will keep you right.

If on the other hand the breeder has assigned tags which are now lost, then you can order up replacements, with their flock number on. 

The red tags are only to replace lost ones where you don't know the original number.  But if the breeder has assigned tags then they should supply you with them.

[Penninehillbilly]

Hi
just curious - I'm surprised that anyone can order tags, even red tags, with someone else's herd/flock number on, don't you have to supply your CPH as proof of address?

[SallyintNorth]

Hi SallyintNorth! We are in the beautiful Brecon Beacons. Do you have goats? The sheep farmers here think i'm bonkers but i love them.

Oh, well that explains the views then! 

No, I don't have goats.  But everyone here is impatiently waiting to hear that I finally have some Castlemilk Moorits - at which point all the other farmers around me will conclude that I have now gone completely round the twist.      That's if the sight of me walking two collies, a hound pup, and five piglets in the pasture every morning, or herding the lambs into the sheep pens with two collies and five piglets, hasn't already convinced them... 

[Lesley Silvester]

Castlemilk Moorits have lovely fleeces.

[SallyintNorth]

just curious - I'm surprised that anyone can order tags, even red tags, with someone else's herd/flock number on, don't you have to supply your CPH as proof of address?

I haven't ordered red tags for sheep, but I have ordered replacement cattle tags for beasts who originated on other holdings, and you always have to give your own CPH & herd number as well as the full number on the tag. 

However the government database for cattle is held in full detail for every single beast, and there is no equivalent database for sheep. 

Like you, PHB, I'd assume I would have to give my own CPH & flock number as well as the details on the lost tag.

[SallyintNorth]

Castlemilk Moorits have lovely fleeces.

I am very glad to hear another spinner say that - a neighbour who spins has booked herself some fleece when I get some, but reading up about Bradford Counts and Staple Lengths I was beginning to think I was mistaken about it.

I have been told it's not the best fleece for a novice spinner, so I expect I'll have to be doing swapsies for a year or several until I gain some competence!

[Fleecewife]

Hi
just curious - I'm surprised that anyone can order tags, even red tags, with someone else's herd/flock number on, don't you have to supply your CPH as proof of address?

Yes you have to give your own number as well, so they know who you are.  All the tag manufacturers seem to have access to a giant communal database of everyone, so they know who has been issued with which numbers.  So if you asked for a red tag for a number which had never been issued to that original breeder - well, you wouldn't get them    When you phone for replacement tags, there are people at the other end of the phone - it's not a form to fill in - so you can discuss just what you need and they are most helpful.

[Violetsprite]

Thanks everyone! I'm grateful for the advice.

I think Castlemilk Moorits are beautiful too! I have one Soay that i took in from the RSPCA way back in 1998 and at the time she had lambed but it was no longer with her so i guess she was no less than 1 or 2 years old - which makes her 14 or 15 years old now. I have no idea how long they can live if they aren't bred for meat but she's certainly the oldest sheep that i know of around here.

[Anke]

If you have your own sheep flock number you can order red replacement tags without giving the flocknumber of the animal you are needing replaced. It is actually quite prudent to have a (small) number of red tags on hand, as long as you refer to the old/new one in your own register. (of course this is only for non-pedigree/non-registered animals, as any pedigree registered ones will have to have their original one put back in...).

[Violetsprite]

Just for Wytsend i thought i'd add a final note to let you know that the seller is sending correct tags and even lending her applicator as i have never had to tag my older girls. Faith in human nature restored?  Thanks again!

[Anke]

Great news!