[jameslindsay]

We decided we would like to add a bedroom extension onto our hotel and so began talks with Fife Council. As the hotel is a Grade 2 listed they said they would never entertain us adding to the original building. So, we went off with our architect and after a lot of research we came up with a beautiful12 bedroom, all en suite building in the shape of a Latvian Lodge. We went to see a building of this nature and they are beautiful and we thought perfect!

However, after many months of fighting and bad manners from the Planners at Fife Council they refused our application and it was sent before the Committee Members of Fife Council. These good people voted in favour of our application - 14 votes for, 2 against. Planning Permission was granted on October. However, it took the planners until the middle of January to send us a letter confirming our approval and of course until you receive written confirmation you cannot go to building warrant.

The planners we dealt with at the council were the most unhelpful and unprofessional bunch of people god put on this earth. They have held us back a year in building and caused us no end of stress.  However, it gets more farcical. In January 2008 the Scottish Government past a law saying that any new build must have a lift fitted if more than 1 level - wait for it - just incase we employ any disabled staff!!! Have you ever heard so much crap? How could someone in a wheelchair clean a bedroom, no disrespect to those disabled people. Now surely it contradicts itself when if there is a fire you should not use a lift so how can a disabled person get out??? We are now fighting this crazy decision so fingers crossed. No wonder this country is in the mess we are.

I know this is nothing to do with small holding but I feel that if people say nothing of the mental bureaucracy of this country it will be allowed to go on and get worse. These idiots should not get away with their rudeness.

[HappyHippy]

Ah, legislation & planners     
Don't even get me started ! (Look out for my rants on previous planning posts)
I wish you the best of luck with it James, just try and 'keep the heid'   

[rustyme]

hello James ,
              the coffee lounge is for any subject (within reason) so no need to worry about it not being about smallholding. However, planning can  very much be related to smallholding, so is a very apt subject to discuss. Planning depts. are like a lot of things in the UK nowdays, they have gone off on a tangent , and think they are a law unto themselves. It is (sadly) us who have allowed this to happen . The recession (if it gets bad enough) may in a strange way be a handy thing. I think it could clear out a lot of the superfluous crap and bureaucracy, that has grown out of all proportion to its real function. It will take a long time to happen , and things will need to get much worse , as it is always the bureaurocrats that are the last to be hit, but it could happen ...fingers crossed . In most cases the only way to beat the planners is if you know someone in the dept. or on the council or , you are a very wealthy big developer, who gives out BIG xmas pressies or has a villa in spain for the use of ??. I have looked into a dozen or so cases of planning permission, where it was given in really strange places or for strange buildings , and every time the people who got the permission were related to councilors (or even were councilors) or were developers or just knew the right people . The planning dept. are on to a good thing ....they must get millions in planning application fees which are turned down , and millions more as back handers. This isn't an off the cuff rant ,my  late dad used have a building/mainenance firm that worked mainly for the council . I know what it used to cost him to keep in business and how corrupt it all was and still is . If you can get round all of that , you then hit the jobsworth ....oh my god I hate those ba*stards, instantly get my back up. ...still good luck with your enterprise , Bring on the revolution......

cheers

Russ

[sausagesandcash]

Planners should remember that they are not demi-gods, they too have to sit down to have a poo! Just like the rest of us mere mortals!

 

[doganjo]

You will find a lot of sympathy on here, James.  Mine included.  I built my own house a few years back after my husband died (previous garden too labour intensive for one person), and before I moved down here near the kids.  It was a nightmare - and like yours they were SOOOO RUDE! My plans showed a bay window, one planner said I couldn't have that as it wasn't in keeping with the local style - I lived in a hamlet of 7 houses and there weren't two the  same, the village 2 miles away had a variety of styles too - many with bay windows.  So I spent half an hour going round photographing them, including one right next door!,  and zapped them at her one at a time in emails.  She phoned me when about 10 had gone through and asked "what the B H" I was doing.  I told her that there wasn't a local style, and that if I couldn't have my bay window I would write to the Head of Planning and cancel my application explaining why - her words were "Oh, you can have your f(lipp)ing bay window now get off my back"  Truly!!!!
My house was almost finished when a new planner phoned me and said she'd looked at my plans and the building stage inspections, and that I didn't have permission for the type of chimney I was going to put in and would have to change it before the house was built - it went through the tiles instead of on the apex of the roof.  I asked her to come and have a look but she said she was far too busy to see every piece of ground and told me to get my architect to change the plans.  I told her the house was already built and she flew off the handle!  Anyway, I reported her attitude to her supervisor, got a letter of apology and one of approval in two days.  So it's worth challenging these little tin gods.  You should hear the stories my friend has while building her eco friendly house - it has taken 4 times longer to go through planning, three times as long to build and easily cost twice s much as mine. And a lot of it is down to planners saying one thing then another one changing things!  Rant over!  Sorry everyone, one of my favourite subjects is Beat the Planners

[northfifeduckling]

Where are you going from here,James? You possibly get around the lift problem with fitting one of the lifts which can be attached to the stairs...Unfortunately and really sadly with planning a lot of it has to do with who you know...Do you have any names who dealt with your application?

[sandy]

We haven't tried local planners  yet, only for advice and they seemed great......anyway, I found it very hard to understand where we lived in England we face a very pretty Edwardian House, door in the middle and four windows, they then built a huge extension which I did agree with as the village was a local beauty spot, BUT when it was build,  the extension had completely different bricks, I thought they may be going to render it as it was also very bad brickwork, the window was a very strange affair and did not match anything anywhere I had seen and the roof was a different angle and of different covering, the extension took well over a year to build and I would not be exaggerating but people passing used to stand and look pointing at things and as we were selling our house at the time, most people asked how they got planning permission in a conservation village....strange in deed, the people were very nice and also wealthy, cannot say too much more as they may be know....How do they do it? And we are thinking af making a tea room so what I wounder would they have in store for us...no money just yet anyway.

[jameslindsay]

I have started something here eh?

The planner that we dealt with was a Samantha Stone (name and shame). She was a vile creature. She would not return calls, would not answer e mails or communicate. She put obstacle after obstacle in our way and we discredited her attempts every time.

Annie, I am originally from Clackmannan. I have heard that most council planners are bad, not just Fife although my architect thinks they are the worst.

The lift has been quoted at £30k so a lot of money for nothing. This is an obscene law!!!!

[doganjo]

Had forgotten about the tearoom, Sandy - you need to start that in early summer to catch the many visitors.  Use that beautiful front room, and do the disabled toilet on a shoe string temporarily.  I have a table you can borrow long term that would seat 4 for tea/coffee, although a bit tight for a meal.  I'll happily help you get started with business plans etc if you need to get the Bank involved.

[sandy]

Sounds to me  like someone is deliberatly putting obsitlces in your way, how stupid to have to put a lift in, I can understand disbled acsess fair play, and lifts in public buildings, disability can and does happen to us all but as  you said someone in wheelchiar would find it VERY difficult to make beds,  you could certaily employ disabled people, even people in a wheelchair to do other things, sounds to me you should take the matter further, is your Hotel Big then? We have a B&B and are not planning any extension, could you not say it was for your sole use and chang downstairs rooms to be disabled friendly.......this is nothing to do with me but I am very mad about it myself...stupid..stupid..stupid...off for a strong coffee.

[sellickbhoy]

the lady who lives in teh flat about my house has 5 acres, she has sold 1 acre - adjacent to the canal - to a couple who want to build a bistro and 4 self catering chalets.

1 year later, planning still ahven't made a decision and they have now asked for everything to be resubmitted.

I'm hoping it goes ahead, be nice to have a local 5 mins away. but some of the nonsense they've come away with to delay things is beyond belief. it's made worse by the fact this exact spot (it's by a canal basin where numerous baots can dock and it's currently NEVER used) was identified by the planning authority as somewhere ripe for tourism/leisure development - it's on the canal, it's near muiravonside park, it's on a road - so it's pretty much ideal

but apparently not

[jameslindsay]

Sellickbhoy - We only have 3 bedrooms at present and spend half the year refusing so much business as we just don't have the rooms. We have incorporated2 specially incorporated rooms on the ground floor for disabled guests and due to the location of the new build it would not be easily accessed by a wheelchair as its on a hill!

[northfifeduckling]

Friends of ours with an eventers business applied for a horse arena, so they could start a riding school. Unfortunately their objecting neighbour had better relationships with "important" people and it was rejected every time under the most pathetic of terms. They ended up selling the house, just keeping the horses for events. I think it is outrageous how small businesses are stung by all this, how is this supposed to be helping anyone? The big shots get away with murder because they have good lawyers.

[sandy]

After a very stressful day yesterday, guess what I dreamt about? Planning permission for the Hotel and the need for a lift!!!! The sad fact is, small business's cannot afford to make properties ideal for everyone, there should be a fund if the government really want to help disabled people, then, the cost would not be so much of an issue.

[rustyme]

being classed as disabled due to an accident I think I am in a good position to comment on some things disabled. I know there should be some things done to make life easier for disabled people , but there are limits I think . If there has to be this and that and god knows what else , for disabled then what about tall people? I have known quite a few people that had to duck to enter shop doorways or to walk bent over in old pubs, why isn't everything knocked down and changed for them ? or blind people ? no obstacles such as trees or lamp posts or telephone boxes?, or for overweight people ? the list just goes on  and on , tall buildings built without windows so that people who suffer from vertigo can use them ? the underground in London moved above ground for those that suffer from  a fear of going undergound ( whatever thats called ?) . Most of what goes on now has nothing to do with disablilty, it is good old polical correctness gone mad . If there is one law they should bring in and apply it should be common sense !!!! Will that ever happen ? not in my lifetime, as it would put thousands out of work at a stroke, all the divs making up these bloody stupid laws .

cheers

Russ