[SallyintNorth]

So, I went to see Monty at Carlisle yesterday.

It was exactly what I expected, nice to see all the problem ponies and horses coming around to Monty's way of thinking, delightful to see Monty chattering away telling you what the horse is thinking ("No, can't go across scary lake, crocodiles in there...  Oops, put a foot in, no-one bit me... No can't go across that corner, the crocodile might be there...  Oh, ok, no crocs in this corner..." and so on.)  Full-on American Big Sell on all products, membership, etc, gazillions of Intelligent Horsemanship folks all watching everyone and everything else intently (even when supposedly talking to you  ) and of course inspiring to see this 76-year old gent still gentling horses and doing a little western-style cowpoke riding demo.

Just, somehow, I was wanting something more... something unpredictable.  So, even though it was exactly what I expected, I left feeling a little underwhelmed, even a little disappointed maybe.

Anyone else seen him on this or previous tours?

[faith0504]

I saw him about 4 years ago, he is a good show man, and good at what he does, but i was left with a but as well,

Having said that i bought a dually halter while i was there and it has been great,

I still follow him to a degree, but i am now edging towards the liberty way, im doing alot of reading and research so when my back is sorted i can put it all into practise,

I think you can draw snippets from all the horsemen or women out there and then follow your own road, as each horse/pony is unique with there own unique ways,

[ellied]

I went along to see him at Gleneagles, probably 10 years ago if not more now

Similar experience - lots of hype and selling/marketing, a bit of routine supposed problem or unbacked horses, some of which appeared to be less problematic or less inexperienced than the explanation and all in all a bit underwhelming - I've not bothered since tho at the time I was going to see anybody and everybody

He did a good PR job for "alternative methods" at the time he started over here, sadly there are so many bandwagons rolling now that it's hard to be impressed by any of them, even the relatively early ones..  Bit like NLP I reckon, all very interesting at the start, but got more hype and sales pitch get rich quick about it now than actual appeal, so that it's actually an offputting glossy image

[Eeyore]

I went to see Monty 6 years ago and I was so inspired with what he achieved with the horses I felt I had to learn it.  The next year I attended all the courses down in Witney and Lambourn.  The foundation course was the best of all which was one of the best weeks of my life.  It wasn't cheap but I don't spend my money on much and this seemed important to me as I wanted to be able to communicate with my horses the way he did.

I do agree with what you are saying about a part of the demonstration is about buying the merchandise.  Isuppose some of the merchandise is essential for IH work so I understand they have to mention this somewhere along the way.  From what you have said and what other people I know have said, the demonstrations aren't the same as they were when they first started.

[waterhouse]

I think it's 80% inspiration and 20% hype though perhaps he's selling more now.  Last time we saw him the quality of challenges he had to work on was rather poor and his horse psychology is rather unscientific.  Nevertheless he does make you think and he gives you some tools to take away and play with 'cos he can sure handle a difficult horse.

I thought his solution for difficult loaders which involved lots of large panels and helpers was a bit clunky.  We've used crossed lunge lines and patience with several of our horses and others with complete success.  It says backwards isn't an option but let's them choose when to go forwards.  And when he does load you take him straight off and reward him.  And repeat lots of times before you actually take him anywhere.

We use a Dually on our Welsh D and I can't praise it enough.  I had to get one one for my rude 17hh IDX and it transformed him into being an easy lead.  You can't be doing with 700kg of rude.

[SallyintNorth]

Having said that i bought a dually halter while i was there and it has been great,

Oh, aye, I'd already got one of them and it's the best money I've ever spent on the ponies - we're all a lot happier since we got that.  Sadly they exactly don't quite fit the larger Fells and Dales - red (small) on smallest holes for the nose end is only just snug enough, but need an extra hole or two over the poll.  Black (medium) is too big on the nose.  I suggested they made extension pieces (a buckle, a bit of webbing and some holes) which could be added to the poll strap to extend it.  They said they thought it was a good idea but I don't think I'll hold my breath...  And will improvise...

[lachlanandmarcus]

I too have a dually halter, my former Yard owner who was also a BHSAI and did the IH associate course recommended it when we backed my Haflinger filly. I now use it on the bored 18yo 17 hand hunter who is semi retired but likes waving at the Queen on the way up to and back from the field as he thinks he is 4.....bless him! It is very good and much kinder than the thin rope ones. Also used it when leading filly along narrow lane to village field and back.

[egglady]

sen monty several times and share all of the above views.  i also like richard maxwell, parelli, hempfling, steve reid and many others..i use bits of everyone and some of my own.

the person i was deeply disappointed in wasnt monty at all, it was KELLY!  her ego is huge and takes away totally from the whole thing "watch this monty, i want you to be impressed" amongst many other comments.  i truly believe she caused one the bad loaders to bolt at the gleneagles one due to her handling of it and wanting to show off!

i will never go again to see monty is she is with him...what a shame

[SallyintNorth]

the person i was deeply disappointed in wasnt monty at all, it was KELLY!  her ego is huge and takes away totally from the whole thing "watch this monty, i want you to be impressed" amongst many other comments.  i truly believe she caused one the bad loaders to bolt at the gleneagles one due to her handling of it and wanting to show off!

I think Monty maybe had given her some PICNIC then; by the time the show got to Carlisle I found her to be obeisant and sycophantic to a degree which felt uncomfortable.

[Rosemary]

She's not my cup of tea tbh. What's PICNIC?

[feldar]

I saw Richard Maxwell and Kelly Marks but they always seem to do a certain type of horse. It was a few years ago, maybe they've changed, but you never see them do the obstinate kiss- my- ass type of pony like mine was or maybe a shetland or fell pony, it was always the thoroughbred type.
A friend of mine got into deep problems with her New Forest mare using some of their techniques and had to resort to sending her away for training. I think it's great if you take on board the whole concept and research it and follow through, i think it's a potential disaster if people only take bits of the training and expect their horse to perform miracles from this.

[SallyintNorth]

What's PICNIC?

Monty's shorthand for Positive Instant Consequences, Negative Instant Consequences

[princesspiggy]

we saw monty at gleneagles a few years back, and use his duallys on our stallions. wev also had round pen training with one of his associates with one of our stallions, and it was very helpful.
on the other hand, i dont see why its all so expensive - if your sole interest was the horse, couldnt u make it a bit cheaper and therefore more accessible to more people?
just my view

[sabrina]

A good horseman or woman is born with their gift, I don't think its something you can learn. You can try to put their work into practice but you have to feel it. the trouble today most people want an experienced horse quickly, must be able to go on the bit, jump, dressage. I once heard Lorna Clark say it takes 7 years to train a dressage horse. Now there are gadgets galore. Horses have breakdowns because they have been pushed far to soon and before you know it you have a problem animal. Yes people jump on the band wagon mostly to make money out of a desperate owner. I bought a horse over from Ireland a few years ago, the first few days were OK and then his true self came out. he Almost killed me. he was a 5 year old. I spent 2 years retraining him which I can tell you was no easy job, many a day I felt like walking away but I knew it was either get his trust or shoot him. In the end he became a wonderful hack, any schooling, jumping and he shook with fear. How does a 5 year old horse get like that 

[waterhouse]

It's because there are many people in the horse world (and the dog world) who want dominance rather than co-operation from their animal.  Also a hugely experienced vet said "all horse owners are liars and bastards", possibly a slight exaggeration but there's lots of evidence.

I bought my 9yo hunter from a lady who'd given up riding because of back trouble.  I firmly believe that she'd been thrown a few times and was scared of him. He was remarkably good natured but also remarkably unschooled. When first lunged he'd no idea what to do so he joined up instead.  And his jumping was uncoordinated and he was rude to handle so I had a lot of work on my hands.  When I sold him (I had a tumour and can't ride) he was 12 but the vet declared he was a 9, 10 at most.  Then the penny dropped: he'd been brought over from Ireland as a green 3yo and sold as a 6yo.  He really was untrained.  But the 3 people who owned him before me all told porkies to move him on.  He is, btw, happily settled with his new owner who knows the whole story.

We also have a rescue ESS who is very neurotic. Scared of people, horses, sheep, cows, the whole works. He cringes when people reach out to touch him  We took advice from a dog psychologist who said he had
symptoms of electric collar abuse.  And beating, of course.

People often aren't nice.