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Author Topic: eAML2  (Read 47902 times)

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: eAML2
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2011, 07:29:10 pm »
that will be two of us getting the mushroom treatment :o :farmer: :o

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: eAML2
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2011, 10:09:42 am »
Still not heard anything back on my query, methinks i may have thrown a spanner in ye olde works, cart & horse comes to mind as ever anything connected to govt dpts & IT ::)
Mandy  :pig:

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: eAML2
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2011, 12:28:47 pm »
Still not heard anything back on my query, methinks i may have thrown a spanner in ye olde works, cart & horse comes to mind as ever anything connected to govt dpts & IT ::)
Mandy  :pig:
The August leaflet said

October 2011 – Expected date for implementation of new legislation. Existing AML2 forms
may still be used to report movements, for a transitional period, but instead, must be sent to
MLCSL AND NOT your Local Authority. See address overleaf.
address being :
MLCSL, Stoneleigh Park, Kenilworth, Warwickshire CV8 2TL

But not sure if we should be legally complying with an "expected date" - would have thought that a mailing saying now live would be sent.

Who knows - usual gov expect us to find out rather than tell us, 'cos of course we have lots of time to do nothing but look up things as we sit in offices all day !

www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: eAML2
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2011, 01:40:25 pm »
I went to Newbury show they had trouble with the sheep licences so God knows what they did with the pig licences! i know they were so behind in the office there were big problems livestock wise, and they charged every single car parking in the carpark £5.00 to park. What a swiz

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: eAML2
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2011, 10:09:26 am »
"October 2011 – Expected date for implementation of new legislation. Existing AML2 forms
may still be used to report movements, for a transitional period, but instead, must be sent to
MLCSL AND NOT your Local Authority. See address overleaf.
address being :
MLCSL, Stoneleigh Park, Kenilworth, Warwickshire CV8 2TL"


The transition dates are Oct 11 - April 12.
I suspect this is because in April they will (hope to) go live and make all pig movements electronic. What confuses me is that it reads as if the 'sending party' is now responsible for sending off the AML whereas it has always been the 'receiving party' that has sent of the AML to TS.
Going to ring my friendly TS lady this afty and see if she can spread any light on this.
Will let you all know later.
Mandy  :pig:

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: eAML2
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2011, 06:06:50 pm »
Spoke to  my nice lady at TS this afternoon, as of tomorrow 1st October No AML's for pigs are to be sent to your local TS they must be sent to MLCSL at Stoneleigh.

Don't hold much hope on things going well, imagine how many movements a day they are going to be inundated with thro the post (does anyone know if you can fax as with TS?) and the people in putting them will like as not be agency data inputters who could as well be tying in tins of beans as pigs ::) At least when i ring TS at Northallerton, they know who iam, where i live and my pigs, things can only get worser...................

We shall see.

Mandy  :pig:

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: eAML2
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2011, 07:12:00 pm »
Am still awaiting responses to my questions from BPEX - they are aparently still trying to find out the answers.
What I queried was :
"A number of queries occur, which hopefully you can answer.  Many small producers sell live weaners from properties that are remote from their homes (so no on-site PCs) , and some  producers do not have internet.
1.   If my PC crashes, or internet is down (happens in rural areas, and small producers may only have one PC) can I use the telephone service?  Or am i banned from moving because of equipment failure?.
2.   If this happens at 8pm is the telephone service available then, and at weekends when many live to live transfers happen?
3.   If telephone service is not available at weekends, then how do those without computers move livestock (and no they may not know before the weekend that they are moving), or how do those with computers that are not working.  Are they banned from moving, or can they do the paperwork retrospectively.
4.   The paperwork states “Q: What if I get an inspection from Trading Standards or the RPA? : All inspection bodies are being briefed on the new system. As with your existing paper records you should give them access to your electronic eAML2 records if you are inspected.”   Are you telling me that I must let an inspector have access to my computer (I hope not!) or how do I give them access – surely they already have this centrally.  Is this just a badly phrased Q&A ?
5.   Given this is due to come into effect in less than  a week, what are the telephone numbers and hours of service for the BPA, BPEX, and MLCSL telephone lines
Thanks in advance for your help and answers

I think I know the legal answers to some of these, as following no response from them went to the legislation,  as PRIMO 2011 says :

"12.—(1) Subject to articles 13, 14, 15 and 16(2) keepers, other than markets, must notify BPEX of all movements of pigs from their holdings before those movements take place.
(2) Keepers may notify BPEX electronically by entering the following information onto the BPEX movement recording system—
(a)the address, including the postcode, and CPH number of the holdings from and to which the pigs are being moved;.
(b)the date of the movement;.
(c)the number of pigs being moved;.
(d)the identification mark of each pig moved, and in the case of a movement specified in article 9 or 10 [shows or export] that must include the unique individual identification number required by those articles..
(3) If a keeper does not notify BPEX electronically they must provide the information listed in paragraph (2) by telephone or in writing to MLCSL and may not move those pigs until they have received a document from MLCSL recording that information.
(4) When MLCSL receives notification of movement information under paragraph (3) it must, within one working day of receipt excluding weekends, send the keeper sufficient copies of a document recording that information to enable the keeper, and any transporter and the keeper at the holding of destination to meet their recording obligations.
(5) When pigs are moved from a market the market must notify BPEX of the information at paragraph (2) in relation to those pigs electronically on the day of the movement.
(6) In this article “BPEX movement recording system” means the electronic movement recording system maintained for the purpose of notifications under this Order by BPEX and “working day” means a day which is not a Saturday or a Sunday, Christmas Day, Good Friday or a bank holiday in England and Wales under the Banking and Financial Dealings Act 1971(1)."

So basically after 31st March, no working PC, or no internet, then you need to allow two working days (providing they are sending first class) to get a form.  Ok so you can book ahead, so if you know on monday that you are moving at the weekend and to whom, you can enter it on your pc on monday, in case your pc breaks down.

As for hours of telephone service - is Monday to Friday 9-5 for BPEX!

For those with no PC, all moves neeed to be booked two days ahead (at least!)

And if you have no pc on your pigsite then you are going to need more forward planning if you sell live.

And if you have PC, and someone phones Staurday to buy for Sunday, better be happy that the PC is working, as if it then goes down, you can't move at the weekend when they call, and if PC not fixed monday, then you will wait until wednesday for the telephone form. Buyer may go elsewhere.

Not so much worried for us, we have two PC's on site, and can always pop to neighbours to enter at worst.

The big pig guys are already paranoid about disease spread and have closed or very tightly controlled moves within pyramiods, and really are no disease risk at all

But the old boys and girls who are not PC literate are going to be affected, and will now fall under the need to serve two days notice. 

It is the small guys/gals who are the disease risk, and suspect that it will lead to more unregistered moves if they have to plan two days ahead, so the law of unintended consequences may well apply, and a system designed to improve data capture may well lead to the opposite.  I hope I am wrong!







« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 07:15:11 pm by oaklandspigs »
www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

Blinkers

  • Joined Jan 2008
  • Carmarthenshire
  • Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire border
    • Glyn Elwyn - Faithmead Herd
    • Facebook
Re: eAML2
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2011, 08:46:30 pm »
Well I filled in the stuff on line and all seemed fine...then I got a letter today saying they'd never heard of me and did I realise it was illigal to rear pigs and not be registered ?!?!?!? ??? ??? ???......and could I ring them on their Helpline!!!!    GIVE ME STRENGTH.    They recognised the Herd Number.........so what the **** are they on about.  :P :P :P    Sorry, another busy day and that just about crowned it.   Thank goodness for a glass of white wine....hic....hic....
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again !!
www.glynelwyn.co.uk

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: eAML2
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2011, 10:28:40 pm »
Blinkers,

oh dear, hopefully not the way of things to come !
www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

tizaala

  • Joined Mar 2011
  • Dolau, Llandrindod Wells,Powys
Re: eAML2
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2011, 08:51:56 am »
I'm so glad that I opened this can of worms.  But worry  not folks,  the good folk at DEFRA have a contingency plan. before any of this can be put into place they will release foot and mouth again to buy themselves time to get it sorted...........

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: eAML2
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2011, 09:02:37 am »
Don't even joke about it tizaala.  Really.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

waterhouse

  • Guest
Re: eAML2
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2011, 10:00:48 am »
Quite

The NSA announced last week it was working with DEFRA on a sheep version.  It does make sense, but I'm happy to see all the cock-ups worked through on the pig scheme first. 

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: eAML2
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2011, 10:48:06 am »
The NSA announced last week it was working with DEFRA on a sheep version.  It does make sense

Nonono nonoNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

It makes no sense at all.  None.  Not any.

Maybe not a problem for smallholders with small numbers of sheep and few movements.  But insane and unworkable for farmers with any number of sheep.

At the moment I am incoherent with rage at the very idea.  I maybe will try to express why it's unworkable and insane later if I calm down.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Blonde

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: eAML2
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2011, 12:13:40 pm »
The NSA announced last week it was working with DEFRA on a sheep version.  It does make sense

Nonono nonoNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

It makes no sense at all.  None.  Not any.

Maybe not a problem for smallholders with small numbers of sheep and few movements.  But insane and unworkable for farmers with any number of sheep.

At the moment I am incoherent with rage at the very idea.  I maybe will try to express why it's unworkable and insane later if I calm down.
It couldn't be that bad surely, we area electronic here in Oz...we can ,  down load the weigh bill ( movement sheet), fill it online, press print.  The program sends a  copy to APL..... and allows us to print one for ourselves.  We have 3 copies.......white, pink and green.  We take all three if delivering ourselves, if the truck comes by we keep the green one and give the pink and white one to the truckie. He signs  the sheet and puts his truck details on it as well,  If the stock inspector pulls him up he loses the pink one ( I think) and keeps the white one...   He gets to the abattoir and delivers  the pigs to which the white one is stapled to the paperwork and goes through the abattoir..  Your kill sheets are emailed through to me via my email address.  The details of all pigs, and the levies are listed on here.  the money owed to you plus GST paid on your pigs.   APL have a register of what was sent and this builds up, they collect the levies and get a gov. grant to match it for research ...is thathow it works in the UK?

waterhouse

  • Guest
Re: eAML2
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2011, 09:48:19 pm »
Sally, I detect a degree of resistance to the idea.  You'll have to help me out because if one accepts that tagging is going to exist for traceability purposes because of the disease that shall not be joked about, then it needs to be easy to operate and generate reliable data - the second following from the first.  Which I can't see from the present paper based system, particularly when every individual has to be uniquely identified on the AML1

Today I sent in the AML1 for the ram I've borrowed from a lady in Bedfordshire  to trading standards in Hertfordshire.  In a months time I'll send another one which may reverse the first, but since I can't read the numbers who knows what will be recorded.

I would have thought that the remote tag ID readers would make things really easy for the commercial farmer.   The NSA trials have shown them to be highly reliable so whats the problem in downloading from the reader to a PC and transmitting bulk entries through software?




 

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