[northfifeduckling]

sorry, didn't do a grammar check 
I meant to say - how can these kids achieve a standard of education so they can legally rob  - as shareholders, bankers, company executives - as in my opinion that's what these high-flyers do. Society is split into a small part that can legally get away with theft and everyone else who tries to make a decent living or turns to crime if the cirumstances are unfortunate.
Education and childhood care are very important but care for teens is underrated as they are considered to be adults while their brains are still reforming. Responsibility and compassion have to be learnt afresh during these years. 

[yankieGirl]

The Tea Party

1.  limited constitutional republic (take a look at our constitution it is relatively short.  It is a document that restricts* the govt's power not citizen's)

2.  personal responsibility. 

*not anarchy as has been asserted by some!

No system is perfect but some are better than others (they don't trample the freedom and liberty of citizens). 
No group is completely homogeneous but their are a few principles that bind the group together.

[northfifeduckling]

I had to learn your constiitution by heart at school - sounds good in theory. If all people were treated the same.

Personal responsibility is good, too.

What does freedom / liberty of citizens mean for you personally and as a group/party? The right to wear weapons?

This is exactly what the rampaging mob claims here - to be free to do what they want without the state/police messing with their affairs.

Also Prime Minister Cameron promotes a "Big Society", where we look more after our own affairs (and after our neighbours, elderly,...)- meaning that the government wants to withdraw support and responsibility by the state for the people. Pay tax and get what exactly in return from society? No care for the elderly or disabled, closed libraries and public leasure centres, less police, less teachers, closed or privatised schools and no remaining health service, no post offices. Oh yeah, I forgot - we got a few wars nobody voted for, but that was the previous "left" government, same difference.

What are the responsibilities of the state as financed by the tax payer - in your vision, yankiegirl?

[yankieGirl]

had to learn your constiitution by heart at school - sounds good in theory.

Not only good in theory but in practice (not perfect).  Things changed in a major way for individuals starting with the FDR administration.  Prior to that private not public institutions were met needs.  For free?  NO.  But the things we think of as free today are actually being paid for through taxes confiscated from pay checks.  There is no such thing as FREE!!!!  Gov't adds an additional layer of cost to everything.  They are the middleman that pads the cost.

Personal responsibility is good, too.

Not just good. Under a constitutional republic, essential!  It is unworkable (as we are seeing here in the US) without it!  That is the danger of a welfare state it eventually strips a mans pride and bye bye personal responsibility.  When a large % of the population is not a stakeholder then why not riot and plunder.

What does freedom / liberty of citizens mean for you personally and as a group/party? The right to wear weapons?

This is exactly what the rampaging mob claims here - to be free to do what they want without the state/police messing with their affairs.

No the mob is advocating chaos and anarchy.  No Tea Party member advocates that. 

Freedom and Liberty:
Ohhh!  Tougher to put in words than one might think.  Great question!  Now my answer can't be all inclusive so please allow for some back and forth or clarification.  (and if you have read any of my other posts you know I ain't that smart but I do like to read!  That's the beauty of freedom and liberty:  It ain't just for the brainiacs


Freedom from coercion, freedom from the arbitrary power of other men, release from the ties which leave the individual no choice but obedience to the orders of a superior to whom he is attached. (not my words but this sums it up) 

This freedom offers no guarentees from want or from feeling the consequenses of your actions.  It does offer the opportunity to live in a manner you see fit. 

This is not lawlessness.  However, if I want to eat salty, greasy fried pork rinds there shouldn't be an agency trying to outlaw the choice in the name of public good (socialized medicine).

If I want to homeschool my kids...if I want to drink unpasturized milk...if I want to butcher my own hogs...if I don't want smoke detectors in my home...if I don't want to buckle my seat belt...THAT SHOULD BE MY CHOICE!!

Pay tax and get what exactly in return from society? No care for the elderly or disabled, closed libraries and public leasure centres, less police, less teachers, closed or privatised schools and no remaining health service, no post offices

You don't pay the enormous $$ to the gov't for things.  Some things are reponsibilities ofthe federal govt:  Military. State govt:  education(maybe)  local gov't:  police.   But some things are volunteer organizations:  fire companies.  Some things you pay for out of pocket or your place of employment offers it in a pay package:  medical care.

[Rosemary]

Why oh why do we look to America as any sort of example? Do we want to be like the Tea Party lot with the mad Sarah Palin and crew?

We should look to our Scandanavian neighbours and, I hope, when Scotland is independent, that's what we will do.

[Crofter]

I can't ever imagine Scotland electing any form of Right wing government. The Tories have how many seats in Scotland?  Scottish people have always cared about their neighbours, appreciated Trades unions for what they should do, preventing exploitation of working people and wanted to look after their sick and elderly.
The only trouble is that all of us have paid for a system that was supposed to care for us when we became old or sick, now our government in Westminster don't want to honour their side of the bargain. Will we get our contributions back? I don't think so!


Edit:  America is no kind of example to anyone. I meet a lot of Americans travelling in Scotland, almost without exception they say "don't model Britain on the USA"!

[tizaala]

Edit:  America is no kind of example to anyone. I meet a lot of Americans travelling in Scotland, almost without exception they say"don't model Britain on the USA"!

Would we ever be that desperate???

[northfifeduckling]

Why oh why do we look to America as any sort of example? Do we want to be like the Tea Party lot with the mad Sarah Palin and crew?

We should look to our Scandanavian neighbours and, I hope, when Scotland is independent, that's what we will do.

I don't - I'm curious as I don't understand the attraction - still don't btw , all sounds too wishy washy and generalising to me.
I agree with Scandinavia, Rosemary, even their system doesn't stop right-wing nutters with guns, though, sadly.

[deepinthewoods]

interesting article on radio 4 earlier. in philadelphia (u.s.a.) theres a curfew from 9pm over the weekend to try to control 'flash mobs' kids going looting,pre-arranged via social networking,  the parents of any kids found on the streets after then, will be fined.

also very disappointed to hear of the first eviction proceedings of a family whos son has been convicted of looting. that will set a precendent. 

[yankieGirl]

The only trouble is that all of us have paid for a system that was supposed to care for us when we became old or sick, now our government in Westminster don't want to honour their side of the bargain. Will we get our contributions back? I don't think so!

Fellow dirty handers your system is out of $.  Yes you paid in but it's gone! 
Both our contries have run out of other people's money to spend.  The promises made were unkeepable.

Why should some one else be responsible for me anyway?

even their system doesn't stop right-wing nutters with guns, though, sadly

Why do you fear guns?  Other than the obvious reasons.  In my part of Pennsylvania most homes have many.

Do we want to be like the Tea Party lot with the mad Sarah Palin and crew?

Be honest...no seriously...it's like having a boogie on the end of your nose and no one will tell you.  Do I sound mad?

[northfifeduckling]

Sorry, Yankiegirl, I tried but I still don't get your reasoning or arguments. And vice versa I guess. Blame it on how we were raised. Never mind, I'm sure you're a nice person 

[SallyintNorth]

Why do you fear guns?  Other than the obvious reasons.  In my part of Pennsylvania most homes have many.

Shoot or be shot.  

No guns, different decision.

Simples.

[Crofter]

Why should some one else be responsible for me anyway?


Because it's the same as you buying health insurance, you expect it to pay out when you're sick.
We pay into a government scheme of National insurance, why should we not expect the same?

[yankieGirl]

A few of the posts are resentful that you paid into the govt and aren't going to get it back.  I understand.  But...the...money...is...gone.

I'm not sure there was ever another ending to this story.

I know, I know, you had to pay.  We do over here too.  But 20 years ago (over here)I remember hearing rumblings that the $ was being taken from Peter to pay Paul.  Did you folks get no heads up?

I guess I don't understand why some of the posts aren't expressing a desire to change your system.  I just hear sounds of pissed folks who t

[yankieGirl]

Damn my puffy fingers for pushing the button too soon.

Damn my lame brain and dial up internet service.  It took so long for the reply screen to come up that I forgot what I was saying!