[Rosemary]

I think a springer / collie cross might give you the worst of all worlds. Improve your sheep handling facilities and work on the bucket. Ten sheep isn't enough to keep a working collie working unless you want to generate work and do trialling or something. I've got two collies and I'm speaking from experience 

[jaykay]

My first dog as a child was a springer/collie cross. He was a complete love and would play ball all day but I don't remember him 'herding' us on the beach as the next two dogs (both collies) did if we strayed too far apart.

We have 30ish sheep and gather them with a bucket - but then they are Rough Fells, noted for their love of food  They are also in fields not up in the fell. If I had to gather them from the fell I would have to get my act together and train my collie properly!

[grumpsgarden]

thank you all for your advice i still want a springer but might have to wait awhile but not to long  , i did have a dalmation cross collie when i was younger he would herd everything but was a right handful but also a great gaurd dog , the sheep did come to the bucket but now after having some help in over the last couple of months they wont come near the feed bucket i think the help is part of the proplem so looks like more work on getting them back to the bucket 

[deniseg4]

I have a 3 year old field cocker, and despite chasing birds from an early age, since we got the chickens a year ago he's made no attempt to "retrieve" them.  Perhaps its because he's to busy stealing the eggs and eating their poo however    He also has a very soft mouth, and once brought a mouse in which didn't have a mark on it besides having a very soggy coat    He's also been around our rabbit and chinchillas and treats them all with respect (except the odd indiscretion the cat, poor girl)

[doganjo]

Annie, i do agree that sometimes hard mouths come from breeding but more times its due to the individual animal. Often in the shooting field dogs will stumble across a bird sitting tight and as we call it 'prick' a bird,

A 'pricked' bird is one that has been shot at and not killed outright.  If it can walk/run it is then a 'runner'.  What you mention here is a 'pegged' bird.  I would not expect any of my dogs to peg, they should point it and be given a command thereafter.  I wouldn't want to eat a bird that had first been mauled by a dog I'm afraid.  However, that is entirely different to having a hard mouth.  A bird that is pegged and still has it's ribs intact has been caught by a soft mouthed dog, one that has been caught by a hardmouthed dog would most likely have it's ribs caved in or limbs broken.  Neither is then suitable for the table, as broken bones mean the meat can have splinteres through it. Admittedly it could also have shot in it but that is another matter -  a discussion for those of us who shoot .

[robert waddell]

annie do you shoot

[Rosemary]

annie do you shoot

From the hip  Never heard "Annie, get your gun"?

[jaykay]

 

[Collie26]

nah we still call it pricked mostly some people call it pegged im not bothered just thought id enter an opinion, but sometimes even the best working gundog with faultless breeding can become hard mouthed either because of training or just the dogs behavior, ive seen it a few times expecially in woking strins that arent worked.

Annie do u work your dogs in the field or trial or both??

[Collie26]

Isnt a bird shot but not killed called 'winged' thats what most people round my way call it???

[SallyintNorth]

Getting back to grumpsgarden's original query... 

One the one hand I think it's nice for all animals to be allowed and encouraged to express their natural behaviours and not at all nice for them to have to have their natural behaviours trained out of them.  So that would lead me to say have a sheepdog (doesn't have to be a border-type collie, there are other sheepdog breeds) for herding sheep and don't have a gundog if you have birds you don't want retrieved. 

However I do absolutely agree with Rosemary, it's hard to keep a true working collie busy unless you number your sheep in the several hundreds (or are keen on trialling so will do lots of training with small numbers of sheep.)

So on balance, in your situation personally I think I would lean towards the lab or something else very trainable and happy to be doing anything you want of it but not bred specifically for finding and putting birds up.  (Sorry I know you fancy a springer but wouldn't it always be fighting its instincts with all your birds about?)

The other thing that you could look at is a collie or collie-cross that isn't very interested in sheep so is not suitable for a larger farm but could do what you need and just be a nice chap/pess to have about.

Or pretty much any trainable breed other than a pointing / flushing one. 

Or maybe, if you don't want to follow the herd, you could get and train a sheeppig? 

[Old Shep]

Hi grumpsgarden   Between me and rest of the family we have sheep, border collies, labrador, springer spaniel and 3 setters.  In my opinion (for what it's worth) if you want a sheep dog - get a sheep dog (i.e. border collie, kelpie etc).  Not all border collies are manic and some may be happy helping out one day a week with 10 sheep if you do plenty of other stuff with them.  A springer is hard enough to train to do what hundreds of years breeding has prepared them for! Why make things difficult for yourself trying to train it to do something it wasn't bred for? I wouldn't be too worried about it retreiving all your birds - the strongest instinct is to flush  The labrador seems to think it's a sheep dog because it spends a lot of time with the sheep, but wouldn't be much use when needed to pen up etc.  Before we got the collie, I often used one of the setters to help move sheep from one field to another just by getting him to sit stay in strategic places He didn't really know what he was doing it for and looked slightly worried  .  Good luck with your choice of dog whatever you decide 

[princesspiggy]

ahhh... we had a collie x springer as kids, she was great but not the smartest.
why dont u try and find a semi-retired collie?
what about a working beardie?

[Collie26]

Another option is to have a pet collie that is trained as a working dog, works for us

[grumpsgarden]

thank you all for your replies , ive deced against a springer as it wouldnt be fair on it here with us so now undeced about getting a collie but have been otherd one witch is 8 weeks old but not from working stock so im taking a week or so to think about it as i dont think its fair to get a dog your not sure about