[CameronS]

I got a letter from Defra saying i should get my free swine flu jab because of my involvement with poultry and cattle etc. i got the jab and wish i hadn't made me sic as a pigg for weeks, went to the doctors turned out i had swine flu  

[RUSTYME]

isn't it also a fact that hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions ?, DID get swine flu and DID get better without the vaccination ? Again this comes from government stats ...not mine.
Even the main head Dr in charge of the UK swine flu 'campaign' ?, said that most people who get swine flu will just feel a bit ill for a few days ..
He did actually seem like a really nice bloke who was caught up in something that he hadn't read the script for ...
 As for no1 in your list of facts:
 "1 if you or a loved one is gonna die from a disease, you will take any treatment available."
 That doesn't apply to everyone , Jehovah Witnesses , so therefore cannot be a fact ....
 
cheers


Russ
 

[deepinthewoods]

thats probably true, but as its supposition not fact we'll never know.
what i DO know is swine flu kills, if, for whatever reason, it takes you proper, untreated your a gonna. not a risk ill take for me and mine having seen it first hand.
i guarantee that if you had experienced this first hand youd be saying the same.

[deepinthewoods]

jehovahs witnesses?? ffs

[RUSTYME]

what was supposition ? it is fact that the majority of people who had swine recovered, and most of those did so without the vaccine !!! so we do know ... because they are still alive, 20 members of my family had swine flu , and I know many more that had it too, they all lived .
Yes swine flu CAN kill , so can seasonal flu , so can many other things .

cheers


Russ

[gavo]

I think this is a subject we need to agree to disagree on as it's a very emotive subject everyone deals with risk as they see fit and that is a fact of life;everyone will have an opinion and they wont be the same;and this type of topic has a habit of going round in circles with no one giving way.

[deepinthewoods]

were all those people blood tested? no, hence supposition,
tbh im still getting over the jw backup.....

gavo, i agree, tis fun tho

[robert waddell]

aye i am enjoying reading it as well(will add a bit more)

[RUSTYME]

At first all suspected cases were clinically tested , it was only after some time that they ceased testing .
 But if you want supposition check out where the figures for the seasonal flu death rates came from .. not even the UK !! It was an extrapolation of a comparative few cases of deaths, I think in the 1960's maybe the 70's , in the USA . It also turned out that some 80% of those cases used in the extrapolation , actually died of pneumonia , not directly related to seasonal flu .
This has now become the 'fact' that the government and the WHO roll out every year, and it is based on crap ...not fact .
 
As for the JW :

"Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Bible prohibits ingesting blood and that Christians should therefore not accept blood transfusions or donate or store their own blood for transfusion.[1] Watch Tower Society publications teach that the Witnesses' refusal of transfusions of whole blood or its four primary components—red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma—is a non-negotiable religious stand and that those who respect life as a gift from God do not try to sustain life by taking in blood,[2][3] even in an emergency.[4] Witnesses are told that the use of fractions such as albumin, immunoglobulins and hemophiliac preparations are "not absolutely prohibited" and a matter of personal choice.[3] Although accepted by the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses, a minority does not endorse this doctrine.[5]
The doctrine was introduced in 1945, and has undergone some changes since then. It is one of the doctrines for which Jehovah's Witnesses are most well known.[6] Members of the religion who voluntarily accept a transfusion are regarded as having disassociated themselves from the religion by abandoning its doctrines[7][8][9] and are subsequently shunned by members of the organization.[10]
The Watch Tower Society has established Hospital Information Services to provide education and facilitate bloodless surgery. This service also maintains Hospital Liaison Committees, whose function is to provide support to adherents."

 So no1 does not apply to JW's ... it is not fact for them ...simple ...

cheers

Russ

[smallholder in the city]

Me and all of the doctors and nurses I work and socialise with have their jabs every year and make sure their kids have the relevant jabs and yes we all practice evidence based medicine.   

[gavo]

As i said before the wife declined the swine flu jab and has always declined the seasonal flu jab but has had all the children vaccinated for all other relevant probs (as i said before it's all a question of risk assessment). She felt swine flu was less of a risk than it at first seemed. Our local hospital has had it's fair share of cases and she has nursed her fair share of them, it has still not changed her mind or that of many other staff.

[ambriel]

Talking only about the flu jab now, isn't it true that the vaccine doesn't contain any live virus and so it isn't possible to contract the disease from the vaccine?

Personally, I'll take anything they offer me and consider it an improvement in my chances.

[sausagesandcash]

Blind faith can be a dangerous thing !

Thalidomide for example

[robert waddell]

well it all comes down to choice YOUR CHOICE our son works for the nhs and he gets his every year  that is his choice
Lillian is diabetic and one of the groups at risk last year she had the jab and was ill for ages 
me on the other hand have high blood pressure should get it BUT DO NOT WANT IT  both of use did not get the jab this year and are still here BUT ON SWINE FLU  ask yourselves how come they had a vaccine ready  when the plane from Mexico carrying the the first victims was landing
personally i am with rusty on this one  with the government men in white jackets and there spives only telling us what they want us to know thalidomide is a good example BSE/MAD COW DIESES and the last outbreak of foot and mouth are others that they have suppressed
I AM NOT A NUMBER I AM A FREE MAN

[pikilily]

Ref Vaccines-

my daughter had two of the three HPV vaccines a few years ago. A few weeks after the second she developed reactive arthritis, with a CRP of 170!!! (normal is next to zero....significant inflamation would give  a CRP of 10 - 20) she was in agony..in hosps for two weeks. At the age of 18 couldnt even wipe her own bum, or walk to the toilet, or feed herself.. This was definately linked to the HPV vaccine and was 'yellow card reported' as a reaction, to the relevant authority. She has been advised not to have any vaccines in the future.
Having started to recover from the arthritis..last year she went on to develope FSGS (a serious kidney malfunction) as a result of inflamation from the reactive arthritis putting a strain on her kidneys. Infortunately she is not really responding to the massive steroid treatment (the only real response was the weight gain and bloating, the swollen face, the hair thinning, the bruising, the mood swings, and the depression) and is now looking forward to a lifelong condition with a 40% chance of kidney failure, dialysis, and transplants. 20% of those with FSGS who have kidney replacements develope the disease in the new kidney too.... So, life changing, life threatening, life shortening!!! NO FUN!! ...all for the sake of a vaccine which actually only prevents ONE of the several virusses which MAY cause genital warts - which MAY cause cervical cancer......... and the protection only lasts for a limited period of time.
I am not suggesting anyone does not get their daughters vaccinated but, do weigh up the pros and cons, look at the alternative methods of protection, and assess their suitability for the girl, bearing in mind the additional benefits of other forms of protection. eg condoms.

Emma T