Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?  (Read 30599 times)

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2011, 12:21:39 pm »
since we come from Scotland it is only Scottish legislation that concerns us (transport certificate is English as it was easier to obtain)
SFS it was you that stocked the lively debate? :o with your posting of 21st march  going into great detail and attempting to ridicule and belittle advice given on rules which is latter proved that i was correct :wave:
OAKLANDS only highlit ed the traceability aspect on 21st march OAKLANDS 28TH MARCH QUOTE stop trying to make sense of this the rules are written by a committee of office workers who go nowhere near pigs :pig: :wave:
DAN was also getting involved on 1st April (he is Scottish based)    then MRS PIG on 4th April and 5th April favouring slap marking and giving missinformation (for Scotland) :wave: :pig: :wave:
NOW FOR MR PIGS INPUT before this thread was started WE DID KNOW that pigs in Scotland can and do go to slaughter on just a paint mark we have mearly informed the southerners and any body else that reads this thread  of the rules in Scotland that can and is utilised :wave: :wave: :wave:

Mr Pig

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2011, 11:28:35 pm »
the whole thing is b*****ks or crap or what ever expletive you want to describe it  :o :o :o
just heared of two pigs that went to slaughter on paint mark only (Scotland) and this is with a strict vet overseeing the slaughterhouse
NO TAG NO NOTCHING NO TATTOO NO SLAPMARK        :wave:

Funny way of educating southerners!

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2011, 11:40:13 pm »
Stop stirring Mr Pig  ::) ;D

I can't believe this thread's still going btw - makes for entertaining  :-\ reading  ;)

Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2011, 09:44:09 am »
So just to recap....

In Scotland - No ID needed, you just have to teach the pig to answer to his name
In England - 27 Tags and 4 slapmarks

Or like in this link ?? : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357635/Inky-perky-Tattooed-pigs-anger-animal-rights-campaigners.html

All makes sense now.
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HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2011, 10:05:20 am »
Yes SfS, my pigs take themselves to the abattior, book themselves in and sign all the paperwork (after having a swift half in the pub)  ;D ;D ;D
That link is shocking though - (not from the welfare rights side of thing because they are given anesthetic) but that anyone has the time to spend doodelling on pigs to that extent lol!

I think the best thing for anyone taking pigs to slaughter is to check with the abattoir you are using, and find out which they prefer.
Karen x

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2011, 10:19:19 am »
SFS beauty is in the eye of the beholder read the Irish comment at the bottom  :wave:
it just goes to show you that despite allegedly being in Europe with common rules nothing could be further from the truth  :wave:

plt102

  • Joined Jan 2011
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2011, 01:07:41 pm »
Hi everyone - never knew that this would cause such a discussion.

What we did was to call the abbatoir and explain the our pigs had (1 x ) slaughter tags in from the previous owner. They said that although it was not ideal, they would accept them this time as the paperwork traceability would be Ok and that they were aware of the situation. So this all went fine. For our next pigs we will ask for them not to be tagged and we will do it ourselves.

Thanks for all the advice. It seems that as long as you use common sense, keep all your paperwork correct and talk to the abbatoir involved, it is all quite simple. By the way, all our boys were dreams going into the trailer and it is the best pork I have ever tasted!

Mrs pig

  • Joined Nov 2010
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2011, 10:58:46 am »


Mervyn Forster - Animal Health  Officer- West Mids area
Before they are moved off your holding, pigs must have the herd mark applied by one of the following means:

·         slapmark - a permanent ink mark of your herd mark, applied to each front shoulder area of the pig

·         eartag - stamped or printed, not handwritten, containing the letters 'UK' followed by your herd mark

·         tattoo - of your herd mark on the ear of the pig

·         temporary paint mark, eg a red line, black cross or blue circle, which must last until the pig reaches its destination

All pigs going to slaughter must be identified with their herd mark. All pigs over one year old moving to another holding, a collection centre, a market or for breeding must also be identified with a herd mark. Pigs under one year old must have a temporary paint mark if they are moving to another holding, but permanent marking is needed for other movements.”


Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2011, 11:29:08 am »
Mrs Pig
Thats verbatum from the DEFRA rule book and whilst a good explanation isn't necessarily what happens across the country. (speaking of which you're another new one who's popped up spouting rules verbatum...............???) ???
My advice is speak to your abattoir and take it from there. I sell weaners with their slaughter tags for people who don't want to go thro the rigmarole of buying tags for 2 pigs. I mark the tag numbers on the AML when they leave me and the people send them to slaughter on the same numbers on a new AML, full traceability. Simples!
mandy :pig:

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2011, 02:31:18 pm »
As I have said before crap crap and even more crap. Mrs Pig, can you not read I am talking about Scotland here, not the West Midlands and also are you not WRONG with your verbatim. You have quoted for SHEEP not pigs regarding the UK letters. :wave: :wave:

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2011, 05:08:09 pm »
 ::) ::) ::)
Second's out - round 2, ding ding !
 ;D ;D ;D
 :wave:

Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2011, 06:41:59 pm »
As I have said before crap crap and even more crap. Mrs Pig, can you not read I am talking about Scotland here, not the West Midlands and also are you not WRONG with your verbatim. You have quoted for SHEEP not pigs regarding the UK letters. :wave: :wave:

Hi ... I hate to keep a heated thread going  ;D ;D ;D but: (for England)

Quote
Contains the letters the letters “UK” followed by your herdmark for example UK AB 1234

From: http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/keeping-animals/registering/pigs.html

Its not rigidly enforced as far as I know and we sell tags to people for pigs with and without the UK prefix

Thanks

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oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2011, 07:06:40 pm »
Think I'll just repeat my earlier post ;D
Let's try and clear this one up !!  The following clarifies Slaughter only, other movements come under the same rules, but I won't cover here.
In England you come under the Pigs Records, Identification and Movement Order 2007, known as PRIMO 2007
In Wales you come under The Pigs (Records, Identification and Movement) (Wales) Order 2008 (PRIMO 2008)
In Scotland you come under The Pigs (Records, Identification and Movement) Order 1995 (PRIMO 1995)
In England and Wales, a pig moving to slaughter comes under part 3 regulation 7 which states
7.—(1) No person may move a pig off a holding unless it has—
(a)an ear tag with the letters “UK” followed by the herdmark of the holding from which it is being moved; or.
(b)a tattoo showing that herdmark (with or without the letters “UK”).
Regulation 6(c) states that
(2) A tattoo must be applied either by tattoo forceps, in which case it must be on an ear, or by slap-marking equipment, in which case it must be on each shoulder.
There is an exemption which allows temporary paint marks for under 1 year old, but not to slaughter.
In Scotland, the 1995 regulation states under regulation 5
(3) It shall not be lawful to move a pig between holdings in Great Britain unless before the movement commences it is marked either—
(a)with an identification mark which complies with the preceding paragraphs,[eartag or tattoo] or
(b)with an identification mark which will last at least until the pig reaches its destination and which, either by itself or by reference to a document accompanying the pig during the movement, enables the holding from which the pig was last moved to be identified.
So under English and Welsh legislation, a pig going to slaughter must carry a eartag, tattoo or slapmark of the holding that is sending it.
Under Scottish legislation it can go to slaughter on a temporary paint mark, or a tag, tattoo or slapmark. For tag,  or tatto, this can be one applied by the breeder, any intermediate owner who has tagged or tattoo it, or the holding from which it is being sent
The previous England and Wales legislation (PRIMO 2003) stated under regulation 14
 No person shall move a pig over 12 months old off a holding unless it is marked with—
(a)an identification mark; or
(b)a slapmark that is legible for the life of the pig and throughout the processing of its carcase.
This meant that if it had been tagged, it didn't need tagging again.
Many officials, breeders and farmers are unaware of the change between PRIMO 2003 and 2007, so some breeders will still tag.
OK so that’s the legal side.
On top of this, abattoirs can set their requirements.  I know of none in England that will accept a pig with an ear tattoo, most accept a single tag, or double slapmark.  Some only accept a slapmark (as they can easily identify a live pig without having to get hold of their ears).
In Scotland, I am told that some accept a temporary paintmark, but again many insist on slapmarks or eartags, so that they can easily identify the pigs as they go through then process.  If your abattoir in Scotland does accept paint marks, it is still probably better to tag or tattoo, so you can get traceability.
UK wide, the abattoir does not care one hoot what the number on the tag is, as long as it matches the paperwork – they have no responsibility for tagging or slapmarking, so as long as there is one they don’t care.
So if in England you buy a pig from a breeder and they tag it with their holding no. and you send this into the abattoir without adding you own, the abattoir will not mind, and the likelihood is that it will pass through with no problems.  Since the AML2 accompanying it will be used to identify the sender if there is a problem, it is highly doubtful whether anyone would ever check that the herd no. matches the holding no. unless the paperwork gets lost, in which case they would go back to the breeder, who might have no idea who sent a pig in.  If the breeder tags, and then the sender also tags, this just adds confusion at the abattoir, as they have to check two tags, so preferably buy your weaners without a tag, and add yours or slapmark.  If the breeder has tagged, it is better to slapmark, as most abattoirs will see this and use it.  By the by it is illegal to remove a tag previously applied !



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robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2011, 07:44:46 pm »
OAKLANDS my point exactly(your last paragraph)
SO SFS is wrong with the UK bit (tattoos) from the legislation quoted :wave:
slowly we are getting the full facts on pig id
pig sheep and cattle all have different id from the same holding at least in Scotland :wave:

Re: Ear tags for slaughter - one or two?
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2011, 08:29:45 pm »
OAKLANDS my point exactly(your last paragraph)
SO SFS is wrong with the UK bit (tattoos) from the legislation quoted :wave:
slowly we are getting the full facts on pig id
pig sheep and cattle all have different id from the same holding at least in Scotland :wave:

I never mentioned tattoos in my last post  :P
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