The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: plt102 on March 18, 2011, 08:09:08 pm
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Hi there again,
another silly question
our boys are off for slaughter next week. They came to us at 12 weeks with one metal ear tag each marked by the breeder. Would it be sufficient/legal to take them with one ear tag. I am taking them to mutch meats in witney and they said they could deal with tags with the previous owners number on as long as all paperwork tied up but I forgot to ask if they needed one or two tags.
Thanks again for any advice. Not looking forward to trying to get them in the trailer!!!
P
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Just one is the legal requirement
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Thanks so much :-)
We'll buy an ear tagger next time then. Mangolitzas next :-)
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I have some Mangalitza's being born at the end of the month, really looking forward to them being born.
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Mangalitsa babies are incredibly cute. Little roly poly brushes on legs.
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When you take them to slaughter they will need a metal ear tag with your herd number on.
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When you take them to slaughter they will need a metal ear tag with your herd number on.
Not if they are under a year old when they go to slaughter they don't x
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Yes they do
The rules are as follows:
* All pigs over 12 months of age need to be identified using a Defra herdmark from every holding the depart.
* The permanent identification of all pigs prior to movement to market, regardless of age and whether moved to slaughter or another holding. Identification can be by either an eartag or a tattoo containing the Defra herdmark or a slapmark. A slapmark must be legible on each shoulder area of the pig.
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The rules I have says
Pig movement regs (tagging)
PRIMO 2008
Any pig (over 1 year) moving off holding must have ID mark of departure holding.
EXCEPTIONS - pigs under one year Moving holding to holding - they can have a temporary mark of departure holding
To market or slaughter - they don't need departure holding tag - the one they had from breeder is fine.
I have sent pigs like that and have had no problems
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The rules I have says
Pig movement regs (tagging)
PRIMO 2008
Any pig (over 1 year) moving off holding must have ID mark of departure holding.
EXCEPTIONS - pigs under one year Moving holding to holding - they can have a temporary mark of departure holding
To market or slaughter - they don't need departure holding tag - the one they had from breeder is fine.
I have sent pigs like that and have had no problems
The above info being told to me over the phone by man from DEFRA which is why is in my own words a bit where I wrote it all down. I know people I've sold my pigs to have sent them to slaughter with the tags I put in thema t 8 weeks and not added their own. People buying to fatten a couple don't want to buy an ear tagger and repalce your tags when sending pork to slaughter ant 6-8 months old!
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Hi,
As far as I know, we are still working to PRIMO 2007:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/642/contents/made (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/642/contents/made)
These are the rules, regardless of whether people want to buy tags and taggers for a couple of pigs or not.
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Hi plt102,
if possible, a couple of days before your pigs go to slaughterhouse feed them in the trailer and let them get used to it,if they have not been in one before (other than collecting them when they were small), it gets them used to going up the ramp and don't feel threatened. You can also feed only a little food the night before slaughter and feed in morning to get them in the trailer, the hungrier they are the more they are willing to go into the trailer first time. If my pig looses an ear tag before slaughter time I paint mark mine on the back and never have had any problems. HTH
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Lillian....
Im shocked !
As a senior member of the SPKA Im surprised at you admitting breaking the law and advocating others do the same
Shame on you !
;D ;D ;D ;D
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hi sfs,
I have never had any problems from my enviromental guy about the paint mark, the schedule gets sent to him and he has not sent to the bad baby corner yet. ;D ;D ;D I am only stating this is what i do when a tag is lost. I have bought a better kind of tag and pliers now, than the crap babe tags and the applicator so it is not a regular thing now ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Lillian,
Then you have a very lenient inspector at your abattoir...
I see a few problems with your method:
1) at another abattoir if after the pig was dropped off and you left, an inspector may spot a missing tag, or an incorrect tag (wrong herdmark) and condemn the meat.
2) If you hadn't left, but had unloaded he could do the same - you would not be able to bring it home.
3) If someone else on the day had done the same (ie paint mark) then how would you know that you received the correct carcass back - unless you have some paint which withstands the de-hairing process.
I like this forum and find it informative, and interesting - sometimes the arguments get very entertaining. But surely any advice given must follow the correct (Legal) procedure.
How would you feel if after taking your advice someone who had spent months lovingly raising a pig or two had them condemned at the abattoir?
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i should also have said that the tamworths and the hamlops(white ears) are tattooed as well the tags are for easy reading and ID for us
now on another post i have said that the tattoo ink fades and others have said the same BUT THE PIN HOLES ARE THERE
many a time i had arguments with the animal health guy(selling cattle that were tattooed) they eventually left us alone
i should also say the last time we had a paint marked pig (at slaughter) was 280 pigs ago
the hampshires are notched with tags as well :wave: :wave: :wave:
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Always best to check with the abattoir that you are going to use.
The one I use will only accept pigs that have a metal eartag with the correct herd number on.
Mine are all tagged with good quality plastic eartags for identification, but my abattoir still require a metal tag for slaughter.
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the scalding process is supposed to remove the plastic tags our last pig that came back from the abattoir still had the tag in the ear(plastic) :pig:
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Like I said the stuff I have written down is what I was told were the rules. Why would he specifically tell me that there was no need to re tag the ones under one year old? So tell me what you do when you buy a weaner in that's already tagged? You tag it again? Rather than just note down it's ID number? With cattle they just keep their same tag - seems cruel that pigs would have to keep having a new one - for instance am thinking of selling one of my sows - so she was tagged at 8 weeks - then I had to put my number on her and then when sold they's have to tag her again - is that what you're saying ?
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leri why are you double tagging and tripple tagging with different ID or are they al the same ID ???? :wave:
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Hi
For what its worth, I have a big bag of writr on plastic flappy type ear tags, I write our herd number on them, and tag them a couple of days before slaughter. The slaughterhouse are fine with that, usually the pigs ears come back with the readable plastic tags intact!
Regards
Jason.
www.hairyhogs.co.uk (http://www.hairyhogs.co.uk)
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Let's try and clear this one up !! The following clarifies Slaughter only, other movements come under the same rules, but I won't cover here.
In England you come under the Pigs Records, Identification and Movement Order 2007, known as PRIMO 2007
In Wales you come under The Pigs (Records, Identification and Movement) (Wales) Order 2008 (PRIMO 2008)
In Scotland you come under The Pigs (Records, Identification and Movement) Order 1995 (PRIMO 1995)
In England and Wales, a pig moving to slaughter comes under part 3 regulation 7 which states
7.—(1) No person may move a pig off a holding unless it has—
(a)an ear tag with the letters “UK” followed by the herdmark of the holding from which it is being moved; or.
(b)a tattoo showing that herdmark (with or without the letters “UK”).
Regulation 6(c) states that
(2) A tattoo must be applied either by tattoo forceps, in which case it must be on an ear, or by slap-marking equipment, in which case it must be on each shoulder.
There is an exemption which allows temporary paint marks for under 1 year old, but not to slaughter.
In Scotland, the 1995 regulation states under regulation 5
(3) It shall not be lawful to move a pig between holdings in Great Britain unless before the movement commences it is marked either—
(a)with an identification mark which complies with the preceding paragraphs,[eartag or tattoo] or
(b)with an identification mark which will last at least until the pig reaches its destination and which, either by itself or by reference to a document accompanying the pig during the movement, enables the holding from which the pig was last moved to be identified.
So under English and Welsh legislation, a pig going to slaughter must carry a eartag, tattoo or slapmark of the holding that is sending it.
Under Scottish legislation it can go to slaughter on a temporary paint mark, or a tag, tattoo or slapmark. For tag, or tatto, this can be one applied by the breeder, any intermediate owner who has tagged or tattoo it, or the holding from which it is being sent
The previous England and Wales legislation (PRIMO 2003) stated under regulation 14
No person shall move a pig over 12 months old off a holding unless it is marked with—
(a)an identification mark; or
(b)a slapmark that is legible for the life of the pig and throughout the processing of its carcase.
This meant that if it had been tagged, it didn't need tagging again.
Many officials, breeders and farmers are unaware of the change between PRIMO 2003 and 2007, so some breeders will still tag.
OK so that’s the legal side.
On top of this, abattoirs can set their requirements. I know of none in England that will accept a pig with an ear tattoo, most accept a single tag, or double slapmark. Some only accept a slapmark (as they can easily identify a live pig without having to get hold of their ears).
In Scotland, I am told that some accept a temporary paintmark, but again many insist on slapmarks or eartags, so that they can easily identify the pigs as they go through then process. If your abattoir in Scotland does accept paint marks, it is still probably better to tag or tattoo, so you can get traceability.
UK wide, the abattoir does not care one hoot what the number on the tag is, as long as it matches the paperwork – they have no responsibility for tagging or slapmarking, so as long as there is one they don’t care.
So if in England you buy a pig from a breeder and they tag it with their holding no. and you send this into the abattoir without adding you own, the abattoir will not mind, and the likelihood is that it will pass through with no problems. Since the AML2 accompanying it will be used to identify the sender if there is a problem, it is highly doubtful whether anyone would ever check that the herd no. matches the holding no. unless the paperwork gets lost, in which case they would go back to the breeder, who might have no idea who sent a pig in. If the breeder tags, and then the sender also tags, this just adds confusion at the abattoir, as they have to check two tags, so preferably buy your weaners without a tag, and add yours or slapmark. If the breeder has tagged, it is better to slapmark, as most abattoirs will see this and use it. By the by it is illegal to remove a tag previously applied !
Since Lillian lives in Scotland, she can go to slaughter on a paint mark if the abattoir accepts it, and Leri is right with 2008 for welsh PRIMO.
Leri – Many trading standards, animal welfare and other officialdom simply don’t understand the rules, or keep up to date on changes, so it is not surprising that whilst yours got the date right, he/she was still quoting 2003 legislation (which covered England and Walesthen – no welsh assdembly in those days)
For those that have stuck so far, Leri, SfS and Lillian are all correct in parts, as under consistent EU wide regulation we have three laws !!
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Hi
For what its worth, I have a big bag of with on plastic flappy type ear tags, I write our herd number on them, and tag them a couple of days before slaughter. The slaughterhouse are fine with that, usually the pigs ears come back with the readable plastic tags intact!
Regards
Jason.
www.hairyhogs.co.uk (http://www.hairyhogs.co.uk)
Jason, this is abattoir dependant.
Any writing on a tag must under Primo 2007 (you're in england!)
be
"sufficiently heat-resistant that neither the ear tag nor the information printed or stamped on it can be damaged by the processing of the carcase following slaughter"
Many abattoirs won't a) accept plastic tags [don't know if they'll melt], and b) accept tags that are handwritten, [don't know if the ink is permanent].
You should always check what your abattoir is happy with !
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oaklandspigs, thanks so much for clarifying all the above. Was just about to do it myself!
Amazing/disheartening how many of the various authorities are ignorant of the rules relating to pigs, and consequently the amount of poor/inaccurate information is passed on to new/would-be pig keepers.
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Re Lilian's and subsequent posts re the rules for ear tagging, I suddenly find French bureaucracy so much less frustrating than before reading .
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Am really confused!
Lillian - the pigs I have bought are already tagged but not with my herd number obviously but with theirs - so assume i have to retag with my number before going to slaughter.
Yesterday delivered two weaners that I have tagged with my number to move them from my holding - the tags have been in a week. The new owner intends removing them and slapmarking them. What's the point?!!! It's cruel and unneccessary - why can't the animals ID stay with them like it does with cows :-(
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The reason is Traceability in the event of disease outbreak.
Cattle have passports and individual animal tag numbers controlled by the BCMS and so have full traceability.
Currently the only way to provide traceability of a pig is by its Tag or Slapmark, you could argue that the movement form gives this - but it doesnt give physical tie back to an individual pig - as pigs don't have to be individually numbered.
Thanks
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Leri i have made a reply to this on your other eartagging topic.
which i hope will explain things a bit better.
As i understand it the tagging everytime they move thing has been dropped as unworkable so forget all about it.
Best Mandy :pig:
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I am told by my local Abattoir not to have ear tags but slap marks instead,they said they fall off in the processing machinery so I guess we shall have to comply to his wishes.
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I was going to suggest slap marking, personally find it much easier.
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Am really confused!
Yesterday delivered two weaners that I have tagged with my number to move them from my holding - the tags have been in a week. The new owner intends removing them and slapmarking them. What's the point?!!! It's cruel and unneccessary - why can't the animals ID stay with them like it does with cows :-(
Leri
1. Stop trying to make sense of this, the rules are written by a committee of office workers who go nowhere near pigs :)
2. Pigs under a year old can move on a temporary paint mark, and have to be re-tagged in England and Wales for slaughter and don't legally need to be tagged in scotland. So your best course of action is to stop tagging them when you sell them, just put a spray mark on. That way the pig only gets a tag or slapmark ID shortly before slaughter - and little/no risk of ripped tags needing replacement.
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Hi,
I Think this makes it quite clear (for England)
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/pigs/idmovement.htm (http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/pigs/idmovement.htm)
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Pigs going to slaugter do not need a tag of any kind unless the slaughter house requires it. however, they do need by law your herd number on them - either by metal tag or by slap mark.
Someone elses herd number is not acceptable as these pigs have come from you're holding where YOU could have a notifiable disease not the previous owners.
It's all about traceability and the slaughter house must be able to trace the pigs back to you're holding.
I suggest you contact Animal Health in your area if you are unsure of what to do - it is vital traceability is manitained!!
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Hi,
I Think this makes it quite clear (for England)
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/pigs/idmovement.htm (http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/pigs/idmovement.htm)
That link's broken, this has the information very clearly stated:
http://tinyurl.com/pigmovement (http://tinyurl.com/pigmovement)
Just as oaklandspigs and Mrs Pig have said, and contrary to earlier posts in this thread, there is no legal requirement for the eartagging of pigs going to slaughter in England.
"All pigs going to slaughter must be identified with their herd mark." - so it's an eartag, slapmark or tattoo; a temporary paint mark is not sufficient. And it must be the number of the herd from which they are being moved to slaughter.
Your abattoir may have their own requirements though, so check with them before moving your pigs.
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now for some more confusion :(
farmer black breeds and sells pedigree pigs his biddie in is an enviormentalist and does not approve of notching or tattooing so he double tags all his pigs
farmer white buys an in pig gilt from farmer black(according to what has been posted) farmer white has to re identify that pig as his with his herd number therefore stopping him from breeding pedigree pigs because it cannot be id as the pedigree papers he was given when he sold it
farmer white gets jacked off with this and sells her on to farmer green who then has to tag her with his herd mark
farmer brown purloins this pig inserts his tag and beats the whole system and is well on his way to making his first million
no wonder we are having difficulty getting pigs back into shows in Scotland the only one that is making any money is the tag supplier
sheep and cattle are far easier to work with you apply for a replacement tag and is recordered as such (not having done this yet )
if you are sending a pig to slaughter your name on the form with address and farm code with the id number of that particular pig irrespective of who tagged it when and with what(as long as it survives the process of slaughter)is all that is required or am i to sensible with this factious pedigree pig AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT THE WHOLE TRACEBILITY b*****ks STOPS AT THE REMOVAL OF THE LAST TAG :wave:
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Hi SfS
please note that it is not a legal requirement to have tag in for slaughter.
the legal requirement is the Herd number on the animal. this can be a tag or a slap mark but it has to be the herd number.
Lillian is not illegal in not having a tag - however, she is illegal if she does not have the herd number in some form on the pig eg tag or slap mark on both sides.
I do however, agree that the abattoir that takes pigs without an Id is in big trouble if a pig has a notifiable disease and they cannot show how to trace it back to the farm!!!!
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now for some more confusion :(
farmer black breeds and sells pedigree pigs his biddie in is an enviormentalist and does not approve of notching or tattooing so he double tags all his pigs
farmer white buys an in pig gilt from farmer black(according to what has been posted) farmer white has to re identify that pig as his with his herd number therefore stopping him from breeding pedigree pigs because it cannot be id as the pedigree papers he was given when he sold it
Not quite right.
Farmer white can quite happily keep the pig throughout its life on his farm with no need to add any further ID or remove any. He must only ADD a tag or slapmark with his herd no. if he takes it to slaughter (England & Wales) In scotland he can take it to slaughter on paint mark if his abattoir lets him.
farmer white gets jacked off with this and sells her on to farmer green who then has to tag her with his herd mark
No, at the stage of selling farmer white would add add a tag with his herd no. if he sells it as a breeding pig to another holder over a year old, or just use a temprary mark if he sells it on under a year old (England & Wales). In Scotland he would move it on a paint mark at any age if he sells it on as breeding pig to another farmer. Farmer Green would again need to do nothing with ID until he either sends it for alughter or sells it, when the above rules are repeated.
I would hate pigs to go the way of sheep or cattle, but would love PRIMO 2003 rules to come back in, whereby when a tag with herd no. has been added, this counts as ID for subsequent moves.
Apart from that I totally agree with your sentiments that all ID for pigs (pedigree and legal) is just very very confusing, and neither the BPA or many breed clubs really help explain it.
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Lillian is not illegal in not having a tag - however, she is illegal if she does not have the herd number in some form on the pig eg tag or slap mark on both sides.
Mrs. P - Not illegal in Scotland where Lillian lives! They are still under PRIMO 1995. see my ealier post stating the rules for all three countries.
However I would always recommend a tag or slapmark to give good tracibility through the process.
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we end up with a pigs ear that has more information on it that a spy's micro dot tattoo, notch's, tag i, tag 2 and tag 3
traceability they could not trace the white line on the road forms can still have full traceability with the original tag. your pig goes to slaughter with your form filled out by you it has the pigs id number on it irrespective of who gave it that number now the Spanish meat inspector identifies your pig as having galloping lurgie the papers identifies the pig farmer as you with that pig and its id number does not matter what the number is simple or is that the problem just to simple :wave:
now cattle sheep and pigs were getting along just fine with the old system that was in place for years along comes BSE and FOOT AND MOUTH both with suspect origins and we have some group of pen pushers that control our working day and impose legislation that we all have to ad hear to :wave:
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Lillian,
"we end up with a pigs ear that has more information on it that a spy's micro dot tattoo, notch's, tag i, tag 2 and tag 3 " ;D ;D
You are dead right, the solution is way out of proportion to the problem !
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Oaklands
I agree with all you have said but the bottom line that all who have posted seem to be misunderstanding is that pigs can and do go to slaughter in England without ear tags. slap marks are the usual manner for hundreds of thousands of pigs - so Lillian can send her pigs to slaughter both in Scotland and England without a tag as long as her herd number is slapped on that pig... but I know you know this.
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Hi again,
Actually the slapmark is the preferred method, as there is no chance of the pig ID being lost in the de-hairing process.
I think you would struggle to find a commercial herd with ear tags.
Also worthy of note is that the quality of slapmarking is scored by the abattoirs and three Bad slaps means a report to animal health - of course this does not apply (yet) to small producers or abattoirs.
Thanks
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the whole thing is b*****ks or crap or what ever expletive you want to describe it :o :o :o
just heared of two pigs that went to slaughter on paint mark only (Scotland) and this is with a strict vet overseeing the slaughterhouse
NO TAG NO NOTCHING NO TATTOO NO SLAPMARK :wave:
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And if you go back and read Oaklands Pigs excellent explanation of 21 March, you will see that a paint mark is perfectly in order in Scotland.
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I do like a lively debate ;D ;D ;D
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since we come from Scotland it is only Scottish legislation that concerns us (transport certificate is English as it was easier to obtain)
SFS it was you that stocked the lively debate? :o with your posting of 21st march going into great detail and attempting to ridicule and belittle advice given on rules which is latter proved that i was correct :wave:
OAKLANDS only highlit ed the traceability aspect on 21st march OAKLANDS 28TH MARCH QUOTE stop trying to make sense of this the rules are written by a committee of office workers who go nowhere near pigs :pig: :wave:
DAN was also getting involved on 1st April (he is Scottish based) then MRS PIG on 4th April and 5th April favouring slap marking and giving missinformation (for Scotland) :wave: :pig: :wave:
NOW FOR MR PIGS INPUT before this thread was started WE DID KNOW that pigs in Scotland can and do go to slaughter on just a paint mark we have mearly informed the southerners and any body else that reads this thread of the rules in Scotland that can and is utilised :wave: :wave: :wave:
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the whole thing is b*****ks or crap or what ever expletive you want to describe it :o :o :o
just heared of two pigs that went to slaughter on paint mark only (Scotland) and this is with a strict vet overseeing the slaughterhouse
NO TAG NO NOTCHING NO TATTOO NO SLAPMARK :wave:
Funny way of educating southerners!
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Stop stirring Mr Pig ::) ;D
I can't believe this thread's still going btw - makes for entertaining :-\ reading ;)
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So just to recap....
In Scotland - No ID needed, you just have to teach the pig to answer to his name
In England - 27 Tags and 4 slapmarks
Or like in this link ?? : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357635/Inky-perky-Tattooed-pigs-anger-animal-rights-campaigners.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357635/Inky-perky-Tattooed-pigs-anger-animal-rights-campaigners.html)
All makes sense now.
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Yes SfS, my pigs take themselves to the abattior, book themselves in and sign all the paperwork (after having a swift half in the pub) ;D ;D ;D
That link is shocking though - (not from the welfare rights side of thing because they are given anesthetic) but that anyone has the time to spend doodelling on pigs to that extent lol!
I think the best thing for anyone taking pigs to slaughter is to check with the abattoir you are using, and find out which they prefer.
Karen x
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SFS beauty is in the eye of the beholder read the Irish comment at the bottom :wave:
it just goes to show you that despite allegedly being in Europe with common rules nothing could be further from the truth :wave:
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Hi everyone - never knew that this would cause such a discussion.
What we did was to call the abbatoir and explain the our pigs had (1 x ) slaughter tags in from the previous owner. They said that although it was not ideal, they would accept them this time as the paperwork traceability would be Ok and that they were aware of the situation. So this all went fine. For our next pigs we will ask for them not to be tagged and we will do it ourselves.
Thanks for all the advice. It seems that as long as you use common sense, keep all your paperwork correct and talk to the abbatoir involved, it is all quite simple. By the way, all our boys were dreams going into the trailer and it is the best pork I have ever tasted!
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Mervyn Forster - Animal Health Officer- West Mids area
Before they are moved off your holding, pigs must have the herd mark applied by one of the following means:
· slapmark - a permanent ink mark of your herd mark, applied to each front shoulder area of the pig
· eartag - stamped or printed, not handwritten, containing the letters 'UK' followed by your herd mark
· tattoo - of your herd mark on the ear of the pig
· temporary paint mark, eg a red line, black cross or blue circle, which must last until the pig reaches its destination
All pigs going to slaughter must be identified with their herd mark. All pigs over one year old moving to another holding, a collection centre, a market or for breeding must also be identified with a herd mark. Pigs under one year old must have a temporary paint mark if they are moving to another holding, but permanent marking is needed for other movements.”
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Mrs Pig
Thats verbatum from the DEFRA rule book and whilst a good explanation isn't necessarily what happens across the country. (speaking of which you're another new one who's popped up spouting rules verbatum...............???) ???
My advice is speak to your abattoir and take it from there. I sell weaners with their slaughter tags for people who don't want to go thro the rigmarole of buying tags for 2 pigs. I mark the tag numbers on the AML when they leave me and the people send them to slaughter on the same numbers on a new AML, full traceability. Simples!
mandy :pig:
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As I have said before crap crap and even more crap. Mrs Pig, can you not read I am talking about Scotland here, not the West Midlands and also are you not WRONG with your verbatim. You have quoted for SHEEP not pigs regarding the UK letters. :wave: :wave:
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::) ::) ::)
Second's out - round 2, ding ding !
;D ;D ;D
:wave:
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As I have said before crap crap and even more crap. Mrs Pig, can you not read I am talking about Scotland here, not the West Midlands and also are you not WRONG with your verbatim. You have quoted for SHEEP not pigs regarding the UK letters. :wave: :wave:
Hi ... I hate to keep a heated thread going ;D ;D ;D but: (for England)
Contains the letters the letters “UK” followed by your herdmark for example UK AB 1234
From: http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/keeping-animals/registering/pigs.html (http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/keeping-animals/registering/pigs.html)
Its not rigidly enforced as far as I know and we sell tags to people for pigs with and without the UK prefix
Thanks
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Think I'll just repeat my earlier post ;D
Let's try and clear this one up !! The following clarifies Slaughter only, other movements come under the same rules, but I won't cover here.
In England you come under the Pigs Records, Identification and Movement Order 2007, known as PRIMO 2007
In Wales you come under The Pigs (Records, Identification and Movement) (Wales) Order 2008 (PRIMO 2008)
In Scotland you come under The Pigs (Records, Identification and Movement) Order 1995 (PRIMO 1995)
In England and Wales, a pig moving to slaughter comes under part 3 regulation 7 which states
7.—(1) No person may move a pig off a holding unless it has—
(a)an ear tag with the letters “UK” followed by the herdmark of the holding from which it is being moved; or.
(b)a tattoo showing that herdmark (with or without the letters “UK”).
Regulation 6(c) states that
(2) A tattoo must be applied either by tattoo forceps, in which case it must be on an ear, or by slap-marking equipment, in which case it must be on each shoulder.
There is an exemption which allows temporary paint marks for under 1 year old, but not to slaughter.
In Scotland, the 1995 regulation states under regulation 5
(3) It shall not be lawful to move a pig between holdings in Great Britain unless before the movement commences it is marked either—
(a)with an identification mark which complies with the preceding paragraphs,[eartag or tattoo] or
(b)with an identification mark which will last at least until the pig reaches its destination and which, either by itself or by reference to a document accompanying the pig during the movement, enables the holding from which the pig was last moved to be identified.
So under English and Welsh legislation, a pig going to slaughter must carry a eartag, tattoo or slapmark of the holding that is sending it.
Under Scottish legislation it can go to slaughter on a temporary paint mark, or a tag, tattoo or slapmark. For tag, or tatto, this can be one applied by the breeder, any intermediate owner who has tagged or tattoo it, or the holding from which it is being sent
The previous England and Wales legislation (PRIMO 2003) stated under regulation 14
No person shall move a pig over 12 months old off a holding unless it is marked with—
(a)an identification mark; or
(b)a slapmark that is legible for the life of the pig and throughout the processing of its carcase.
This meant that if it had been tagged, it didn't need tagging again.
Many officials, breeders and farmers are unaware of the change between PRIMO 2003 and 2007, so some breeders will still tag.
OK so that’s the legal side.
On top of this, abattoirs can set their requirements. I know of none in England that will accept a pig with an ear tattoo, most accept a single tag, or double slapmark. Some only accept a slapmark (as they can easily identify a live pig without having to get hold of their ears).
In Scotland, I am told that some accept a temporary paintmark, but again many insist on slapmarks or eartags, so that they can easily identify the pigs as they go through then process. If your abattoir in Scotland does accept paint marks, it is still probably better to tag or tattoo, so you can get traceability.
UK wide, the abattoir does not care one hoot what the number on the tag is, as long as it matches the paperwork – they have no responsibility for tagging or slapmarking, so as long as there is one they don’t care.
So if in England you buy a pig from a breeder and they tag it with their holding no. and you send this into the abattoir without adding you own, the abattoir will not mind, and the likelihood is that it will pass through with no problems. Since the AML2 accompanying it will be used to identify the sender if there is a problem, it is highly doubtful whether anyone would ever check that the herd no. matches the holding no. unless the paperwork gets lost, in which case they would go back to the breeder, who might have no idea who sent a pig in. If the breeder tags, and then the sender also tags, this just adds confusion at the abattoir, as they have to check two tags, so preferably buy your weaners without a tag, and add yours or slapmark. If the breeder has tagged, it is better to slapmark, as most abattoirs will see this and use it. By the by it is illegal to remove a tag previously applied !
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OAKLANDS my point exactly(your last paragraph)
SO SFS is wrong with the UK bit (tattoos) from the legislation quoted :wave:
slowly we are getting the full facts on pig id
pig sheep and cattle all have different id from the same holding at least in Scotland :wave:
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OAKLANDS my point exactly(your last paragraph)
SO SFS is wrong with the UK bit (tattoos) from the legislation quoted :wave:
slowly we are getting the full facts on pig id
pig sheep and cattle all have different id from the same holding at least in Scotland :wave:
I never mentioned tattoos in my last post :P
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SFS you have just emphasised my point :wave:
you quoted animal health/defra keeping animals and you dont read it (that is were it says the bit about tattooing) sorry but by quoting you mentioned it :pig: :wave: :pig:
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Hi Lillian,
I was quoting it to bring to your attention that pigs (in England) "should" have a UK prefix on their ear tags, and that Mrs.Pig was not quoting sheep regulations by referring to a UK prefix as you seemed to think.
But as you seem determined to have the last word on this post - then do so now and I wont post to this thread afterwards ;D ;D ;D
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it is not a question about last word first word or middle word ? :wave:
WE HAVE 5 FIVE ENGLISH AND WELSH BRED PIGS IN OUR HERD NOT ONE HAS UK BEFORE THERE SPYS MICRO DOT INFORMATION
AS I HAVE SAID ALREADY b*****ks CRAP OR WHAT EVER EXPLETIVE YOU WANT TO USE :pig: :wave: :pig:
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Oddly all my imported from Uk pigs have UK on their tags. My french pigs just have my holding no. on ear tags, when sent to abattoir they are slap marked with FR (France) then my number. The authorities here are quite lax on some things yet are fanatical about the FR for marking pigs for abattage.
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that is the whole point of uk or fr markings to show the country of origin exported pigs whould need to comply rigidly for export abroad :wave:
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Gosh - I'm glad I didn't read this before I sent my pigs to slaughter.
I just phoned the abattoir a couple of weeks in advance and asked what was acceptable to them. I will phone in advance each and every time I send as - as has been shown here - the rules change or are confusing and - legal or not - I am happy to go with what the abattoir suggests.
We are in Wales but we take our pigs over the border to England to be slaughtered.
They just wanted a slap mark with the herd number on. We did one on each shoulder and one on each buttock for each pig as we wanted to collect the half carcasses and I did the buttock ones the wrong way round :-(
When we bought the weaners (in Wales) they were just paint marked.
Simples
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I will phone in advance each and every time I send as - as has been shown here - the rules change or are confusing and - legal or not - I am happy to go with what the abattoir suggests.
Suziequeue,
Wouldn't worry about phoning each time, the rules are not liklely to change anytime soon, they have been the same since 2007 (England) and 2008 (Wales) and are the same rules in both countries. A slapmark on each shoulder is fine for both the rules and your abattoir, if you want to slap legs as well then no problem.
What is being argued on this forum are technical points between the three countries, and what people do in practice.