[Fleecewife]

I have just heard the alarming news that Palaceriggg Country Park near Glasgow may have to shut due to council cutbacks.  The decision will be taken later this week.
For those of you who don't know Palacerigg, this is a farm open to the public, where they keep specimens of Scotlands 4 very rare sheep breeds - Soay, Boreray, North Ronaldsay and Castlemilk Moorit.  In fact they hold the ONLY Boreray flock in Scotland. A breeder in England has expressed interest in taking on these sheep, but that would leave Scotland with no Boreray sheep at all.
Palacerigg also has one of only 3 North Ronaldsay flocks in Scotland, one of the 7 Castlemilk Moorit flocks, and one of the handful of Soay flocks.
I would take the Boreray if I possibly could but I have absolutely no further capacity here.  Is there anyone out there with an interest in the rare breeds who could possibly help?  None of these sheep should go south of the border if we can keep them here.
I have already been in contact with Richard Lochhead, the Scottish Agric minister, about the sorry state of rare breeds and the lack of support for smallholders in Scotland, via Aileen Campbell our MSP, but I think this is so urgent that the decision will have been made before they have even read their emails.
What can we do?

[Shnoowie]

Wish I could help, but we are as far south as you can get!  Really hope people can take these sheep on - especially if they can be kept in Scotland.

[cmorrell]

I know this is in the Sheep forum, but it's far from just sheep at stake here. I live in Kirkintilloch, just a short drive away from Palacerigg and visit often. They specialise in RBST registered breeds and have been doing incredible work the past few years particularly in bringing rare breed work to the publics attention as well as helping to enlarge the numbers of several different breeds.

- Eriskay ponies
- Shetland cattle
- White park cattle
- Baggot goats
- Guernsey goats
- Tamworth pigs
- Scots Grey chickens
- Scots Dumpy chickens
- Marsh Daisy chickens
- Old English pheasant fowl
- Golden Sebright
- Dwarf zebu

amongst others I can't name off the top of my head. This would be a great loss if closed 

[egglady]

i didnt realise that soay were so rare.  my friend has a flock and they breed like rabbits.  the chap she got them from has about 50 in his flock too!

[doganjo]

WEBSITE
http://www.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=6526

Online form to contact them - http://www.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=12374&formid=10&sendtoid=0

[Fleecewife]

i didnt realise that soay were so rare.  my friend has a flock and they breed like rabbits.  the chap she got them from has about 50 in his flock too!

Hi Egglady, I think what I wrote was not very clear - I was typing too quickly.   Soays are the least rare of the 4 Scottish very rare breeds.  World wide there are 2192 registered Soay in 166 flocks, but the point is that only 6 of those are in Scotland, their native country.  There are of course Soay on St Kilda, but they are not registered and cannot be brought onto the mainland.  There are many flocks which are not registered, especially in Scotland, but without their pedigrees there is no guarantee that these animals are pure blooded, which makes them of less value to the future.
As a Soay breeder I am aware that there are many more potential Soay breeders in Scotland who simply cannot get hold of registered stock, so I am hoping to work with the Soay Sheep Society to bring more animals north.  Meanwhile I am hoping that the Palacerigg sheep can be kept here with the help of smallholders and crofters.

[doganjo]

i didnt realise that soay were so rare.  my friend has a flock and they breed like rabbits.  the chap she got them from has about 50 in his flock too!

Hi Egglady, I think what I wrote was not very clear - I was typing too quickly.   Soays are the least rare of the 4 Scottish very rare breeds.  World wide there are 2192 registered Soay in 166 flocks, but the point is that only 6 of those are in Scotland, their native country.  There are of course Soay on St Kilda, but they are not registered and cannot be brought onto the mainland.  There are many flocks which are not registered, especially in Scotland, but without their pedigrees there is no guarantee that these animals are pure blooded, which makes them of less value to the future.
As a Soay breeder I am aware that there are many more potential Soay breeders in Scotland who simply cannot get hold of registered stock, so I am hoping to work with the Soay Sheep Society to bring more animals north.  Meanwhile I am hoping that the Palacerigg sheep can be kept here with the help of smallholders and crofters.

Not 100% sure but I think there are Soays near Condie, but may not be registered.  Also, even if you can find Soays with three quarter blood they would still be useful for preserving the breed - can be bred back to pure bloods and dilute the incoming blood.  That has been done in other animals for hundreds of years - and why there are 270 or so breeds of dog!

[Rosemary]

Budget meeting is 9th December. I've emailed the Council and the park management for comment, also CSSA and the local RBST support group.

Lochhead? After the debacle of the Knocknagael Shetland cows, don't hold out hope for the government to help.

[Fleecewife]

Hi Doganjo.
The thing with Soays is that they are so primitive and have been kept separate from other breeds for at least a thousand years, that their usefulness for scientific research into things such as resistance to disease, susceptibilty to worm burdens and so on, depends on them being kept pure.  Those pure and rare characteristics will one day, probably sooner rather than later, be vital to breeding new sheep types to cope with the changing climate and agricultural needs of the country.
I know they have used crossing back to recreate a breed - the Norfolk horn - and it is recognised that after 16 generations any new blood has been effectively bred out from the phenotype, but a few genes will still be in the genotype to confuse the picture.
Fortunately Soays are available purebred from England, Wales and even North America, so that problem should not arise.  But we should be looking after our own breeds better here in Scotland.

i didnt realise that soay were so rare.  my friend has a flock and they breed like rabbits.  the chap she got them from has about 50 in his flock too!

Hi Egglady, I think what I wrote was not very clear - I was typing too quickly.   Soays are the least rare of the 4 Scottish very rare breeds.  World wide there are 2192 registered Soay in 166 flocks, but the point is that only 6 of those are in Scotland, their native country.  There are of course Soay on St Kilda, but they are not registered and cannot be brought onto the mainland.  There are many flocks which are not registered, especially in Scotland, but without their pedigrees there is no guarantee that these animals are pure blooded, which makes them of less value to the future.
As a Soay breeder I am aware that there are many more potential Soay breeders in Scotland who simply cannot get hold of registered stock, so I am hoping to work with the Soay Sheep Society to bring more animals north.  Meanwhile I am hoping that the Palacerigg sheep can be kept here with the help of smallholders and crofters.

Not 100% sure but I think there are Soays near Condie, but may not be registered.  Also, even if you can find Soays with three quarter blood they would still be useful for preserving the breed - can be bred back to pure bloods and dilute the incoming blood.  That has been done in other animals for hundreds of years - and why there are 270 or so breeds of dog!

[Fleecewife]

Hi cmorrell.  I replied to your points earlier but my reply hasn't come through so it must have been swallowed up by the ether 
I hadn't realised just how many rare breeds there are at Palacerigg.  There is almost nothing about the livestock on the website, or at least that I could find, just mention of a few of the breeds and species they keep.  What a place to lose.  Do you know more about the situation?

I know this is in the Sheep forum, but it's far from just sheep at stake here. I live in Kirkintilloch, just a short drive away from Palacerigg and visit often. They specialise in RBST registered breeds and have been doing incredible work the past few years particularly in bringing rare breed work to the publics attention as well as helping to enlarge the numbers of several different breeds.

- Eriskay ponies
- Shetland cattle
- White park cattle
- Baggot goats
- Guernsey goats
- Tamworth pigs
- Scots Grey chickens
- Scots Dumpy chickens
- Marsh Daisy chickens
- Old English pheasant fowl
- Golden Sebright
- Dwarf zebu

amongst others I can't name off the top of my head. This would be a great loss if closed 

[Fleecewife]

Budget meeting is 9th December. I've emailed the Council and the park management for comment, also CSSA and the local RBST support group.

Lochhead? After the debacle of the Knocknagael Shetland cows, don't hold out hope for the government to help.

Hi Rosemary.  How did you find that out?  I have drawn a blank all day - but I must admit I have spent more time ploughing through all that lovely new deposit of snow to get to my stock    .

So we have until Thursday to try to influence the decision.

I hadn't heard about the Knocknagael Shetland cattle until I looked on the RBST website today, and that doesn't say much.  Can you tell us the full story please?
I agree that Richard Lochhead and the Government are unlikely to do anything but there's nothing like a bit of shaming 
I wonder if the Scottish farming press are interested, or even aware?

Can you let us know what replies you get please.

[egglady]

thanks fleecewife and co - makes sense now

[lachlanandmarcus]

Aberdeen council recently tried to withdraw funding from the local rare breeds farm (Doonies) and they also breed Eriskay ponies amongst others. It would be worth them liaising, as Doonies eventually came to a deal with the council and survived, at least for now.
http://www.dooniesfarm.co.uk/

[Rosemary]

I got this yesterday from Ian, who's the Secretary of the Caledonian RBST Support Group

"Hi Rosemary
Yes I did hear that its a move by the council as a cost cut. RBST Stoneleigh are trtying to help via Ruth Dalton and I have had some conversations with Clair Rock who has started a rescue movement. I sent her some information about RBST and did a short interview with the local paper some time ago but I have to admit to losing contact abit due to a busy period with work.I think there was a council meeting due this week on 9th when the final decision will be made.

I will try and find out more from Clair and let you know.

Ian"

I'll pass on more information as I get it.

Re Knocknagael The Scottish Government had a herd of Shetland cattle - all female, I think - that it had maintained to preserve the genetics. Due to cost cutting, they decided at very short notice to sell it at Dingwall Mart. The Shetland Cattle Breeders Association and the Shetland Cattle Herd Book Society were either not told or told very close to the sale - to close for them to do anything to secure the herd. Furthermore, many of the females had not been put in calf for years so now some doubt as to whether they will be able to calve again. So much for preserving the genetics. Maybe we shoudl just clone them - that seems to be OK.

[Fleecewife]

Aberdeen council recently tried to withdraw funding from the local rare breeds farm (Doonies) and they also breed Eriskay ponies amongst others. It would be worth them liaising, as Doonies eventually came to a deal with the council and survived, at least for now.
http://www.dooniesfarm.co.uk/

Thanks for that link.  Doonies seems to have lots of 'friends' - so far i am still unable to even contact Palacerigg to see if they have such a set-up there, or if they are even wanting to fight the closures.  Do you know if the support for Doonies began after the Council decision had been made, or did it start when people knew of the threat?  There is only one day left before the council finance meeting where the future of palacerigg livestock will be decided.