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Author Topic: 4yr lawful development  (Read 1613 times)

Orinlooper

  • Joined Aug 2015
4yr lawful development
« on: December 06, 2019, 06:08:43 pm »
We have a couple of acres small holding that we have been turned down planning before

Does this mean we can not get lawful development after 4yrs?



Orinlooper

  • Joined Aug 2015
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2019, 05:42:11 pm »
Is there anywhere that is a good place to find accurate info on the 4yr lawful devipmemt

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2019, 06:37:18 pm »
Google it, lots of good basic info on lots of lawyers websites. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2019, 06:39:07 pm »
I'm not sure I understand your question Orinlooper.


Are you saying you have been refused planning for a building in the past, but you are now hoping to put something similar up, unnoticed for 4 years? If that is the case, subject to not having deliberately concealed it, then as I understand it, you would be entitled to apply for a certificate of lawful development.


There is a very good site on the internet:
  Martin Goodall's planning Forum, which has some very good articles on this subject.
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2019, 11:47:56 pm »
If you can prove buildings have been up over 4years they are exempt from any enforcement action from the council

Ghdp

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Conwy
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2019, 11:15:15 am »
A change of use however needs to be established for 10 years I understand

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2019, 11:42:06 am »
I’m speaking for English rules; I think Wales is different and I’ve no idea about Scotland, Northern Ireland or anywhere else.

If the building is a dwelling, it’s 4 years.  Otherwise it’s 10 years.  If it’s a caravan or other mobile structure, even if it’s a dwelling, it’s 10 years.

Your question is somewhat ambiguous, @Orinlooper, and it’s a rather big subject.  Can you be more explicit please?


Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Orinlooper

  • Joined Aug 2015
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2019, 04:35:50 pm »
I’m speaking for English rules; I think Wales is different and I’ve no idea about Scotland, Northern Ireland or anywhere else.

If the building is a dwelling, it’s 4 years.  Otherwise it’s 10 years.  If it’s a caravan or other mobile structure, even if it’s a dwelling, it’s 10 years.

Your question is somewhat ambiguous, @Orinlooper, and it’s a rather big subject.  Can you be more explicit please?


It's in Wales, is the law more favourable in Wales?


The problem is we tried years ago and got turned down, does this mean it's too hard to try again?

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2019, 05:09:58 pm »
I’ve a friend in Wales who says that yes it is easier in Wales, and talks about “One Planet”, which means nothing to me :/

Do you mean you tried for a Certificate of Lawful Use (which tells you that it’s now legal to live in a building which already exists and has been lived in for 4 years), or a Certificate of Lawful Development (which is different but I don’t know much about these), or you applied for planning permission? 

I’m confused, because if you applied for a CLU and were rejected, you’d have had to remove the dwelling, or stop living in it.  If you applied for pp and were turned down, I don’t understand what you are asking.

Perhaps you have to be obtuse as this is a public forum, in which case please just say so and I will stop trying to help because I am clearly not on your wavelength!  Lol. 

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Ghdp

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Conwy
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2019, 05:20:52 pm »
 I think you google 'one planet planning guidance in Wales' ( or something like that) and you should find a link to the policy. It deals with off grid developments (and the criteria applied)

HTH


Orinlooper

  • Joined Aug 2015
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2020, 05:04:36 am »
Are there any new laws or requirement changes to the 4yr rule?

Someone said it has gotten easier?

Orinlooper

  • Joined Aug 2015
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2020, 05:07:13 am »
I’ve a friend in Wales who says that yes it is easier in Wales, and talks about “One Planet”, which means nothing to me :/

Do you mean you tried for a Certificate of Lawful Use (which tells you that it’s now legal to live in a building which already exists and has been lived in for 4 years), or a Certificate of Lawful Development (which is different but I don’t know much about these), or you applied for planning permission? 

I’m confused, because if you applied for a CLU and were rejected, you’d have had to remove the dwelling, or stop living in it.  If you applied for pp and were turned down, I don’t understand what you are asking.

Perhaps you have to be obtuse as this is a public forum, in which case please just say so and I will stop trying to help because I am clearly not on your wavelength!  Lol.


Yes a little vague as its a public forum

We have permission for agricultural use of the building and want to get change of use for residential

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2020, 10:01:54 pm »
We have permission for agricultural use of the building and want to get change of use for residential
I don't know about Wales (or England) but in Scotland you get points for living on the land for various types of activity.  It appears from what my friend was saying today (she has been trying for planning permission for some years) that growing food or flowers gives you more points than animals.  She has drawn up a business plan stating that she will be putting up a combination of a number of polytunnels and raised beds (you get more points for covered plants apparently), and also glamping pods.  She has been advised by her architect that she should apply for two houses and she will most likely get consent for one.  She is in the process of preparing a buisness plan with a three year financial forecast.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2020, 10:48:38 pm »
In England the four year rule means simply that the council have lost the right to enforce the original use of the building.  In order to prove, you need to be able to demonstrate that the new use has been continuous for the full four years.

Where the building is other than a dwelling it’s not 4 years, it’s 10.

So if you wanted to get a Certificate of Lawful Use to live in what was originally an agricultural building, first you have to live in it for ten years, and make sure you collect evidence to be able to prove that you have done so.  Then, once the 10 years are up, you can apply for the CDU.  But there are nuances, so you’d be well advised to get a planning consultant with track record in this sort of case to help you.

I have no knowledge of the equivalents, if any, in Scotland or Wales.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: 4yr lawful development
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2020, 08:24:39 am »
Quote
So if you wanted to get a Certificate of Lawful Use to live in what was originally an agricultural building, first you have to live in it for ten years, and make sure you collect evidence to be able to prove that you have done so.  Then, once the 10 years are up, you can apply for the CDU.  But there are nuances, so you’d be well advised to get a planning consultant with track record in this sort of case to help you.

If you live in agricutral building for 4 years undetected  and it has household facilities and you can prove occupation you can get a lawful development certificate

If the building was in agricutral in use before march 2013 . or for 10 years agricutral use after that time if it fits the criteria  it can qualify for conversion into a house under PDR  section Q which does not require planning permision

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=18&ved=2ahUKEwjJmfuzg-zmAhUxpHEKHfaCCRgQFjARegQIBxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legislation.gov.uk%2Fuksi%2F2018%2F343%2Fpdfs%2Fuksiem_20180343_en.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0DC-lWJrgavGDdLgdDOikL
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 08:26:18 am by mart6 »

 

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