[Dookie]

Hello all... I'm new here and hoping that someone may be able to help me...

I have been approached by my local planning dept and invited to make a retrospective planning application for a building (well, a silo) that I have put up without permission. I know I shoud have made an application before going ahead but I was under the impression that it would be allowed as permitted development. Not so, however, and there is an article 4 directive in place. I was told I should use a planning consultant, but I have a very limited budget (I am a pensioner).
I am wondering whether I should try & make the application without a consultant, but I just don't know where to start... 
The land is an acre of greenbelt which has a brick building on it which has B1 use, and which I would like to replace with the silo, as this woud effectively double the amount of available space whilst retaining the same footprint. The sio also looks much better as I am surrounded by agricultural land/farm buildings, etc.

Does anyone have any advice, please? Regards, Dookie

[Dookie]

One other thing, please... how will I know if anyone replies to my post.. does it get notified by email?

[Womble]

Actually, you can opt to receive notifications if you like. There's a wee button next to "reply".


As for the planning permission query, you've already built the thing, so did the planning department  indicate that they were unhappy with the structure in any way, or was it just a case of getting a tick in the right box?  I think knowing that information would change the way I'd seek to approach this?

[landroverroy]

What do you mean by a silo Dookie? Do you mean a tall metal agricultural structure?


 

[Dookie]

Oh... so sorry!! I thought I'd get an email if there were replies... I've only just seen this!! I've just posted again today...
Ok... firstly, I think the planning dept was informed by one of the locals about the silo going up and it's more like a box ticking thing... there are grain silos all over the place here, as it's all farmland (except for my bit, which used to belong to the farm until 100 years ago when it was bought by a water company to supply drinking water to the local area...) It really doesn't look out of place, but I guess they don't like it if you don't adhere to the rules...

[doganjo]

If you haven't already applied be aware that they triple the normal fees if you apply retrospectively - as a penalty.  And all necessary details will need to be documented by authorised personel - plans, electrics, drainage, build etc etc

[Dookie]

I didn't know that! Thank you.

If I don't make a retrospective application and just wait for an enforcement notice, would it be expensive to appeal the notice?

I've been told by the planning enforcement officer that I will definitely not get the PP as it's on greenbelt... so it just seems pointless to make a retrospective application...

I'm a bit confused as to why they are telling me to waste my money....they've told me that an enforcement notice will probably be served on me this side of Christmas, so I'm getting a bit anxious.

None of this has been in writing... they just turn up on site & question me... and I'm hard of hearing... I wish they would put it in writing so that I understand it all better.

[pharnorth]

They are lookimg to make an enforcement notice because it has been a long time since they told you to do the retrospective planning application. It gets harder and more expensive to resolve the further you let this run. Do find a friend or a professional who can talk to the planner and interpret for you what you need to do. Once they put things in writing it is much harder to back track to a better outcome.

[Dookie]

Ok... thank you! I really need a planning consultant, but with no savings, that's never going to happen. I did speak to a consultant about the fact that they have visited and asked me to make a retrospective application, and she informed me that I don't need to do anything until they have formalised the request by writing to me... was that bad advice, do you think...? It's very tempting to wait as I'm trying to save up the fees...but if it's true that they can send an enforcement notice without a written warning, then I would be in trouble.

[pharnorth]

I think what I would do is write a short note preferably addressed to the person who first spoke to you simply saying you have no wish to be in breach of any regulations. You understand he adviced a retrospective planning application was needed and you are saving up for the necessary fees.

That merely acknowledges their advice and doesnt actually commit you to anything. It is hard to do these things without a consultant unless you can work your way through a lot of legal guidance stuff.

[doganjo]

I think what I would do is write a short note preferably addressed to the person who first spoke to you simply saying you have no wish to be in breach of any regulations. You understand he adviced a retrospective planning application was needed and you are saving up for the necessary fees.

That merely acknowledges their advice and doesnt actually commit you to anything. It is hard to do these things without a consultant unless you can work your way through a lot of legal guidance stuff.

Excellent advice, but do you really need a planning consultant?  A good architect who knows their way around the planning and building standards systems should be all you need. If you are in Scoland it is all done on line, so they will know their way around the website too.  A site visit or two, drawings and statements, logged onto teh system, a number of email questions back, pay the money and it should be Ok.  I don't know what the sysetem is in the rest of the UK though.

[pgkevet]

I've mentioned before that when I was moving here i got in touch with local planning department to discuss what i might/might not be able to do with the place and one of the planners came down to visit. We had a long chat and the defining comment he made was how few folk actually use them in that sort of way. Things may well have changed but most such departments are there to advise and assist as well as accept or refute.
It may be possibel to explain you wish to fulfill their requests and see if they are up for arranging a meeting so they can help you out with the process.

[pharnorth]

I agree with both the last 2 comments. My experience was
1) phoned the council got advise confirming the type of application and how to do it. Then planner disagreed with some of what had been said and was a lot of fiddling about but got there in the end
2) next project I asked a local councellor, 2 architects amd paid 1 to do a submission. Planner siad they would turn it down on an assumption of different future use. I phoned them and clarified our intentions and it went through with a minor adjustment

What I learnt: architect will give you free advice on what sort of application you needed and chance of success.  They are usually but not always right. They will charge for doing the submission and should guide it through
The planning office are most helpful if they understand you are genuine and trying to stay in the law but it can be difficult getting to the right person.
In my last post I refered to 'comsultant' that was a bit loose as I meant professional such as architect. The professional specialists are pricey and only needed if you have got into deep trouble or want something the planners dont want you to have.

[landroverroy]

.
QUOTE ""-- Excellent advice, but do you really need a planning consultant?  A good architect who knows their way around the planning and building standards systems should be all you need. If you are in Scoland it is all done on line, so they will know their way around the website too.  A site visit or two, drawings and statements, logged onto teh system, a number of email questions back, pay the money and it should be Ok.  I don't know what the sysetem is in the rest of the UK though.--"" END QUOTE.



Having spent the last 3 years working my way past refused retrospective planning applications and a resultant enforcement order, I would say that a dedicated planning consultant is exactly what you need! (By the way I've not had to pay any more for a retrospective planning application than for a normal one. Perhaps the 3 x price is only in Scotland.)  An architect is an architect with a good knowledge of planning. A planning specialist is just that -  a specialist with far more detailed knowledge and experience in planning than the average architect. At the stage you are now you need expert help. An hour with a good planning expert should cost between £60 - £90/hr and is worth every penny to find out exactly where you stand.


You say you have no savings - well then I'd say that from today you'd better start living pretty frugally, or sell a body part! Because unless you get some proper professional opinion from someone soon you will end up with an enforcement order which will cost you even more money to fight, and if you still try and save money by not fighting it, then there will be a court order for you to take the silo down, or you will end up with a large fine or prison.


As a ray of encouragement, I would advise you to put in a retrospective application as suggested by the local planning dept. They don't normally ask you to do this if they are minded to refuse the application. I also agree with what Pharnorth said about keeping them in the picture about your intentions, just so they don't think that you are ignoring them. But don't take to long with your application. Your lack of funds is not their problem. I also would not take too much notice of what the enforcement officer said. I have had experience of 3 different ones over the last 3 years and they have all given me wrong information, which would caused me no end of problems had I not checked up on what they said - some of it actually being in writing and blatantly wrong.
   

[Dookie]

Thank you all for your kind and helpful advice.
 
I think I should probably make a brief retrospective application to try and head off the enforcement notice... if the forms are not too complicated, I'm sure I could manage this unaided.

When that is turned down, as it most likely will be, then I can appeal it...is this correct?

So, at this point I'd need to bring in a planning specialist/consultant (?) to argue my case & say why I feel they were wrong to refuse to grant permission to keep the silo.

This would be easier/cheaper than appealing an enforcement notice... have I got that right?

I had to laugh, Roy, when you said I should start living more frugally... My total monthly income is a state pension of just £312 per month... it's very hard to save anything.

It doesn't look very good for me, but I'm not ready to give up yet... this little nature reserve is the only reason I have to get up every day.